Qualifying tyres to return?

[cider_and_toast]

Picked up this article from the Autosport website.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93716

So, do we think this would be a good idea?

What I think it would mean would be an end to the rule that the tyres you qualify on are the ones you start the race on, plus I presume it would lead to a reduction in the number of race tyres used over a weekend.

I can see the biggest problem with this being that the lower order teams have been using the option tyre to sneek into qualy 2 thanks to some of the mid-field teams opting to run primes in order to save sets of tyre. This would end that practice and mean that the lower order teams loose that advantage.

Another issue is that super sticky Qualy tyres were most effective when there was more than one company providing tyres as this meant that there were tracks that favoured different tyre companies at different times. This lead to some out of sequence qualification performances on occasion. With a single tyre maker to get there would be less performance differencial between teams.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I can only see plusses to this. All driver qualifying on the same tyres means a level playing field.

Not having to burn race tyres in quali means teams will not be conservative in quali.

Not starting on quail tyres mean that the top ten will not be disadvantaged by worn rubber.

 

[Bill Boddy]

One of the good points about current qualifying is that if a driver is confident and driving well he can get through the first two qualifying sessions without using the option tyres, thus giving him an advantage in the race.

I don't see how it would work with three sessions anyway, or do they get an endless number of sets as and when they want them? Maybe a return to 1 hour, maximum of 12 laps with everyone but HRT sitting in the garage for the first 45 minutes. Great.

 

[Slyboogy]

I think this is a good thing, I am not a fan of this "save a set of tyres" it's a farce, because of this Webber managed to come from 18th was it? to finish 3rd.

Also, why should you have an advantage for not getting into the next qualifying session? You already have the advantage of choosing what tyre you can start the race unlike the top 10 who have to start with the ones they qualified on.

Another thing, we might see the 107% come into play a bit more if this rule is applied.

 

[jez101]

Also, why should you have an advantage for not getting into the next qualifying session?

I have noticed this too, especially looking at CTA's Fantasy Formula1, the driver that gets knocked out in Q3 (often Heidfeld, Algersuari or Kobayashi), have been the one making up the most places on race day. It seems to be better to qualify 18th than it is to come 17th or 16th and having burnt another 2 sets of option tyres.

I think qualifying tyres would be mostly a good thing, but it would mean the race tyres are new rather than used, which in turn would almost certainly lead to fewer pitstops in the race. I think Pirelli are going to have to be really careful not to end up back where Bridgestone were with 1 stop races all round.

 

[Galahad]

A very good idea. Won't be cheap though?

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Does this mean that everybody will use the same tyres in quali? And does it mean everybody will start on the same tyres, or atleast have a free choice to choose, rather then top 10 having to use the quali tyres.

If so fantastic!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Does this mean that everybody will use the same tyres in quali? And does it mean everybody will start on the same tyres, or atleast have a free choice to choose, rather then top 10 having to use the quali tyres.

If so fantastic!

I think so. something else that Pirelli were talking about a while ago was bringing all tyre compounds to races and letting teams use whichever they want, whenever they want over a weekend within a limited number of sets of tyres rather than limited numbers and types as current.

 

[Slyboogy]

A very good idea. Won't be cheap though?

Hm...

Nothing in F1 is cheap...that's all I can say

 

[MCLS]

It would mean Q3 would be more interesting instead of Red Bull going out and setting a time in 2 minutes and sitting in the garage for the rest of the session...

 

[Kamui-FastestChefInTheWorld]

It would mean Q3 would be more interesting instead of Red Bull going out and setting a time in 2 minutes and sitting in the garage for the rest of the session...

How? Surely they'd just do their laps and then not bother?

 

[MCLS]

Go out for seconds, improve their time as they don't need the tyres for the race

 

[Bill Boddy]

Go out for seconds, improve their time as they don't need the tyres for the race

But how many sets would they be allowed for each session? Or are they allocated a fixed number of sets for the whole of qualifying?

Let me see, 2 sets for Q1, 2 sets for Q2, 2 sets for Q3. 14+28+60=102 sets of tyres for qualifying. That many would last me a lifetime with some over to leave in my will.

 

[Kamui-FastestChefInTheWorld]

Is it me, or is this just going to make the fastest car at the front and the slowest at the back, because there will be no chance of a mix-up with tyres, like Webber in China, for example? And it means that there will be no drivers who save tyres for the race to perhaps be slower qualifying, which produces interesting races?

Bad idea for me...

 

[tooncheese]

Is it me, or is this just going to make the fastest car at the front and the slowest at the back, because there will be no chance of a mix-up with tyres, like Webber in China, for example? And it means that there will be no drivers who save tyres for the race to perhaps be slower qualifying, which produces interesting races?

Bad idea for me...

With these tyres you get no second chances, and they could be 4 or 5 seconds a lap faster, so if you mess up your flyer you could be well down the field. I think it should be three tyres, then there is a bit of strategy. One problem I find is this will play into the hands of Vettel.

 

[Kamui-FastestChefInTheWorld]

With these tyres you get no second chances, and they could be 4 or 5 seconds a lap faster, so if you mess up your flyer you could be well down the field. I think it should be three tyres, then there is a bit of strategy. One problem I find is this will play into the hands of Vettel.

OK, fair enough, the qualifying grid may be mixed up, but wouldn't it mean that everyone had the same number of tyres for the race, so there would be no differing strategies, or am I missing something?

 

[Road of Bones]

Hmm - I quite like the idea of quali-spec tyres actually. What would be good is if they make short-duration tyres that are actually slightly slower than the option race compound - that would mitigate the "fastest car always qualifying at the front and therefore staying there for the race" thing, and still give us the potential for some exciting midfield-to-the-front action. All the FIA would then have to do is stipulate that all cars must qualify on the quali-spec tyres.

Simples!

 

[Galahad]

Is it me, or is this just going to make the fastest car at the front and the slowest at the back, because there will be no chance of a mix-up with tyres, like Webber in China, for example? And it means that there will be no drivers who save tyres for the race to perhaps be slower qualifying, which produces interesting races?

Bad idea for me...

I can understand that view, and in the past I have said the same myself, but actually I now think with the race tyres Pirelli are supplying we will get good action in the race without too much contrivance through the qualifying system.
If the idea is to have super-sticky qualifying tyres in the old sense, the laps should be more dramatic, and should provide a clearer indication of the true abilities of the cars and drivers. At the moment, for example, the tail-end cars in Q3 will generally have used all 3 sets of option tyres (1 run in Q1; 2 in Q2) and can therefore play no meaningful part in that session. Similarly at the moment, it's possibly better - because of the number of sets of fresh tyres - to qualify 18th than 17th.

 

[Pyrope]

Hmm - I quite like the idea of quali-spec tyres actually. What would be good is if they make short-duration tyres that are actually slightly slower than the option race compound - that would mitigate the "fastest car always qualifying at the front and therefore staying there for the race" thing, and still give us the potential for some exciting midfield-to-the-front action. All the FIA would then have to do is stipulate that all cars must qualify on the quali-spec tyres.

Simples!

How would that work? If the quali tyre is slower than the race tyre you'd have to mandate it, else everyone would just use the race tyre. If everyone is on the quali tyre why wouldn't the fastest car qualify first anyway?

 

[Road of Bones]

Pyrope - my last line covers the "mandate" thing. Yes - you're probably right about "fastest car at the front" in Q3, but with a slightly quicker option in the hunting pack's back-pocket for race day, we could still get the mixtures of race-strategies that we currently enjoy. If they do away with the mandatory "2 compounds" dry race rule too, we could see a return to the softs-vs-hards, stay-out-or-pit-lots, battles from the 80s & 90s.