Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests
- Thread starter The Artist.....
- Start date
Ferrari are home and dry, to be honest I didn't believe they had a case to answer as the circumstances of the testing were completely different....
I don't see this as the FIA favouring Ferrari in this particular case....
I don't see this as the FIA favouring Ferrari in this particular case....
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
The one great certainty in life is that if one writes a complicated, excessively constricting and over invasive rule book then rules will be broken. If that is compounded with a punitive and blame focussed culture another certainty is that what follows will be knee jerking from all and sundry. Meanwhile we, the audience, await the consequences of a lot of stuff that is actually quite trivial in the scheme of things. I am reminded of the sour taste and bitterness that, for me, tainted the 2007 season.
It's quite enjoyable picking apart the minutiae of the politics but somehow this sort of fuckgate just seems to devalue the actual sport.
It's quite enjoyable picking apart the minutiae of the politics but somehow this sort of fuckgate just seems to devalue the actual sport.
rufus_mcdufus
Champion Elect
Well I'm not entirely surprised Todt dropped any investigation into Ferrari.
I really hope this is sorted out with a fine and nothing more. Somehow, I doubt it.
....it was probably a Red Herring.
Or just to clear up exactly what the difference was between the procedures used by Ferrari and Pirelli as opposed to the procedures used by Mercedes and Pirelli...
Kewee
Race Winner
Absolutely Meph. What many appeared to miss was they were never accused of anything, they were just required to provide information related to their test. Quite different to the situation Mercedes are in.
Yep
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
You didn't see what I did there, then. I'm sure Mephistopheles will
Anyway, whilst the FIA, media and many others are preoccupied with having someone to throw stones at, it seems that is a dearth of information or debate about what Pirelli and McLaren were actually doing in the tests. Maybe this isn't the right thread for that as it began in the above noted fashion. However, I believe it is pertinent to the discussion since it is the very nature of the test that will determine whether Mercedes actually transgressed or not.
So, for arguments sake, if I were Pirelli what would I want from the team whom I have engaged to provide me with a car and driver?
- First and foremost I would want a consistent, reliable and above all unchanging platform. In running the test I would require the team to ensure that the set up is as near balanced as possible for the circuit. In fact, in the circumstances prevailing in Spain, I would request that the car is maintained in the race set up that was used on race-day. I would also prefer to use the same driver throughout the whole test and were that not possible I would want two drivers of closely matched ability.
- For the operations of the test I would then require the driver to drive the car according to my requirements and not those of the team. I would do this by instructing the driver to perform a series of laps at specific delta's and as consistently as possible.
So Pirelli do the logical thing and pick Mercedes to give them a car, Nico and Lewis for the test. For Pirelli , this has two advantages. One, it give them a car that is currently in the midfield so it is average, neither world beating nor rusty lemon. Two, they have two drivers of very closely matched ability who are more than capable of driving to prescription.
What did Mercedes get out of it? Well they put 1000km (600miles) more wear and tear into a chassis, engine and gearbox. If they gathered any data on how the car used the tyres Pirelli were testing it will be worthless since the actual eventually tyres produced for 2014 will be quite different - how much difference there will be remains to be seen. The 2014 tyres could be very, very different so the test data cannot be relied upon to give Mercedes an edge.
Finally, would pounding round Catalunya enhance the drivers capabilities for the rest of the season? Lewis and Nico? Give me a break, they can do that until the cows come home but it would be very handy practice for a newbie.
So if I must return to the OP, then all I can say is this. If Mercedes have transgressed then it is a marginal transgression at best. If the FIA do not clarify the regulations to distinguish between tyre testing and car testing then it is their mess and they need to take it on the chest and accept some responsibility for the problem.Who knows the next team to fall through the cracks in policy might be one of our other favourites, like Lotus, MacLaren, or Ferrari (near miss this time round) or ...
One thing is for sure, if the tyre supplier can't call on a team with a representative car to test their product they may not wish to carry on being crapped on in a series that can make or break their public reputation. it should come as no surprise that in the hard nosed world of business other manufacturers are not exactly warm to the idea of peddling their wares to F1.
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Fear not, it's my propensity to write simple yet easily misread sentences. Incidentally, you may notice that I was caught out by a slip of the wrist and posted thread #355 having only just started writing it. I only mention it because I know a lot of folk read posts on their phones or diddy little tablet thingies. I also made so many changes in it, it's taken me a blooming hour to finish! Mind you I did stop for 
breather in the middle.
breather in the middle.
Kewee
Race Winner
Fenderman..... Thank Goodness, as clear as mud now. 
Just joking. To be honest I'd like to see an end to the ban on testing altogether for tyres, cars, engines, the lot. It would lift the quality of the racing for a start by allowing the second tier drivers more track time. Far to many restrictions in F1 at present in my opinion and that includes many of the technical regulations. At present it's a battle between aerodynamics. Hopefully next year we'll see engines come to the fore. I'm not so keen on upside-down aeroplanes.
Just joking. To be honest I'd like to see an end to the ban on testing altogether for tyres, cars, engines, the lot. It would lift the quality of the racing for a start by allowing the second tier drivers more track time. Far to many restrictions in F1 at present in my opinion and that includes many of the technical regulations. At present it's a battle between aerodynamics. Hopefully next year we'll see engines come to the fore. I'm not so keen on upside-down aeroplanes.There is one slight problem with your view on the situation Fenderman and that is that Pirelli cannot pick and chose which team tests and which teams can't, all the teams have to be asked and they all have to be in agreement and the other teams are denying that they were invited to test.
It is no good Mercedes saying well they must have known what we were doing because they were packing up to leave and we weren't, that is like a husband saying to his wife, well you must have known I was going up the pub to get pissed because you saw me leaving through the front door..
It is no good Mercedes saying well they must have known what we were doing because they were packing up to leave and we weren't, that is like a husband saying to his wife, well you must have known I was going up the pub to get pissed because you saw me leaving through the front door..
Fenderman
Rooters Reporter
Pirelli pointed out in their "strongly worded statement" (several posters have included links in this thread) in response to the FIA as to how they went about choosing who to use on that occasion and why. They also claim to have extended the invites as far as reasonably practicable with global invites pre-season followed by various email communications during the season. Unless they are lying through their teeth that shouldn't be an issue.
With regard to informing the other teams and all and sundry about the test, since it was a test at the invitation and behest of Pirelli then Mercedes had no responsibility to inform anyone at all. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of Pirelli. I also think they should also accept some degree of responsibility for the arrangements with regard to the car since due diligence requires not only that oneself acts in accordance with regulations, but that any organisation with whom one does business should do so as well. If they don't then you shouldn't do business with them.
Of course, that last bit is a bit of pie in the sky, Utopian thinking and has no place in the modern world of "you stab my back, I'll stab yours" commerce.
With regard to informing the other teams and all and sundry about the test, since it was a test at the invitation and behest of Pirelli then Mercedes had no responsibility to inform anyone at all. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of Pirelli. I also think they should also accept some degree of responsibility for the arrangements with regard to the car since due diligence requires not only that oneself acts in accordance with regulations, but that any organisation with whom one does business should do so as well. If they don't then you shouldn't do business with them.
Of course, that last bit is a bit of pie in the sky, Utopian thinking and has no place in the modern world of "you stab my back, I'll stab yours" commerce.
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