Mark Webber vs Sebastian Vettel

[Clinton]

As for why Webber feels more comfortable in the updated car, Marko added: "Mark is less sensitive to the [car's] behaviour. He just needs four wheels, but it's different for Vettel.

Although he can get by with two...

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Very similar to how people say Button and Hamilton are then? Button likes his car just how he likes it whilst Lewis just drives....

Good points... he was shocked to be so far of SV's pace in Melbourne last year... plus some glitches with KERS... accentuated the problem for MW methinks... but hats off to Fraulien... he took hold of Batmans cruits and squeezed tightly and refused to let go... thus dispensing with the team mate challenge early on in the season, allowing him to focus on the title...

 

[Wombcat]

As for why Webber feels more comfortable in the updated car, Marko added: "Mark is less sensitive to the [car's] behaviour. He just needs four wheels,"

And sometimes he doesn't even keep them all on the ground, and still goes flying past!

Edit: ow, Clinton beat me too it

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Oh and I meant to add. Lets remember Webber has had a lot longer in F1 and a lot of bad cars for him to learn to drive round problems. This is Seb's 5th full season in F1 and the first time he's had a bad car really.

the only time he had a "bad car" he managed to t-bone MW at Suzuka whilst the field was under a safety car when a podium... perhaps a second was in the offing

 

[RasputinLives]

Imagine a scenario where Newey irreconcilably takes disfavour with Vettel, which is an entirely possible scenario.

Now, who do you show the door?

Well obviously you keep Newey and look to bring in Alonso or Hamilton if he can't work with Seb. I don't think Red Bull would ever back Webber as their number one driver. Woould be a backwards step for them.

 

[Mezzer]

I don't know what you mean by "not in a good way" I have never seen Webber do anything untoward when people are trying to overtake him, ..

I believe Mezzer means that Webber doesn't know when he's lost ... A good defensive driver makes his car as wide as possible, but he knows when he's be beaten and accepts it.

Don't want to get in trouble with Brogan on quoting but thought this was worth covering. No-FIAt-please was pretty much on the money, I would only add "... and then works on getting the position back by some good racecraft." It has seemed to me in the past that Webber would rather have a shunt than do the wise thing, Singapore being an excellent example. It paid off worse for Hamilton than Webber in that instance, however Webber was never going to make the corner without using Hamilton's rear left wheel as a brake. Its my opinion that when somoeone's past Webber they tend to stay there, he doesn't show the speed or nouse to get the position back. All subjective, of course, but that's how I see it.

 

[johnnoble1990]

I believe Mezzer means that Webber doesn't know when he's lost, often he can be too agressive, putting his own and other driver's races in jeopardy. A good defensive driver makes his car as wide as possible, but he knows when he's be beaten and accepts it.

My problem with Mark is he defends in the entry to a corner, a bit like Massa. I think it is good hard racing to give someone a squeeze on the exit to a corner, but if you push too hard on the entry the overtaking driver is already committed.

 

[teabagyokel]

Imagine a scenario where Newey irreconcilably takes disfavour with Vettel, which is an entirely possible scenario.

Now, who do you show the door?

Newey, and then having that meeting Hamilton wanted in Canada...

 

[Mephistopheles]

Mezzer

Everyones opinion is valid it is just not how I see it he had a close battle with Button at singapore 09 (I think it was) and webber won that one but it was all very fair

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Newey, and then having that meeting Hamilton wanted in Canada...

You mean get rid of Newey and have Hamilton as chief designer?

 

[teabagyokel]

Clearly since I said that ExtremeNinja, there is little possibility of me having made a mistake with the affirmativity of the question.

I would show Vettel the door and have Hamilton as chief driver.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

I would show Vettel the door and have Hamilton as chief driver.

I would show Vettel the door and bring in Kimi...

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Kimi has direct Red Bull sponsorship, doesn't he?

 

[Mezzer]

Mezzer

Everyones opinion is valid it is just not how I see it he had a close battle with Button at singapore 09 (I think it was) and webber won that one but it was all very fair

I'm good with that, but IMO he's just as likely to do the unnecessary rather than the sensible, doesn't mean he hasn't had good scraps where he either won or lost but did the sensible thing.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

I'm good with that, but IMO he's just as likely to do the unnecessary rather than the sensible...

I think a lot of these "brain fade" moments that MW has had are in the past... think about how many starts he has made and lost multiple positions... he pushes around a bit and has had a couple of scrapes...but hasn't ploughed through a side pod every 4th race... go back 4-5 seasons and he would be Wendlinging it off the track every 3rd GP trying to make up 3 spots by the first corner...

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Kimi has direct Red Bull sponsorship, doesn't he?

not sure... I think he did during his RWC sojourn but he would be an infinitely better option than LH imho...

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think webber was top of the overtaking league last year or very near the top so he can't be that dangerous..

Mind you that was brought about by his piss poor starts and being in a very good car..

 

[FB]

Unless everyone has learned and just gets out of the way

 

[Mezzer]

I think webber was top of the overtaking league last year or very near the top so he can't be that dangerous..
Mind you that was brought about by his piss poor starts and being in a very good car..

I can believe it, but its not his offence but rather his defence that I've had reason to question. Although, his punt of Hamilton at Adelaide (?) when Hamilton was scrapping with Alonso (I think?) was ridiculously speculative, he took a dive into a hole that he prayed would exist when he got there and, guess what, it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Webber is a bad driver by any means, I just sometimes breathe a sigh of relief when he's safely passed.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Although, his punt of Hamilton at Adelaide (?) when Hamilton was scrapping with Alonso.

It was Melbourne 2010 when Hamilton was closing down Alonso.

Although I have slated Webber, I can only think of 3 occasions where his judgement has been questionable. There was Australia 2010, Singapore 2010 and Italy 2011 (where he was too agressive with Massa).