Mark Webber vs Sebastian Vettel
- Thread starter ExtremeNinja
- Start date
But, having said that, is understandable since Red Bull know that Vettel can win a championship.
But he didn't do it. I don't like it, but I think Vettel in a good car is probably Red Bull's best chance.
Depends what you define as a good car. One man's thoroughbred is another man's donkey.
Red Bull have a good car right now, but Vettel is being quite comprehensively beaten by Webber at this point of the season.
Red Bull have a good car right now, but Vettel is being quite comprehensively beaten by Webber at this point of the season.
Vettel in a Vettel-good car is more likely to win a title than Webber in a Webber-good car.
Vettel good cars may never happen again with the constantly changing regulations. Its a big gamble to focus your entire operation on a "plug-n-play" driver.
Its a gamble they're already committed to, and has already delivered in the form of four shiny baubles.
That does not take into account the question of the regulations, which appear to have been very suited to Vettel's driving style over that period.
I doubt it is impossible for Vettel to succeed with these regulations. Note that he has one second place this season.
That could have easily been a fourth had the much faster Lewis Hamilton and Mark Webber been able to overtake him and ad he not been gifted the position in the first place. That podium was not entirely on his own merit, not that I discount it.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
I would say SV is better all round than MW, there is no real natural vs technical divide here (whatever that is)
For me in racing speed is directly correlated to bravery, if one is on the motorway going flat out, the braver you are the longer your pedal stays glued to the metal. SB has this in spades, so does MW but SB also makes less mistakes has less off days and appears more committed. I think we are privileged to see the bravest drivers in the best cars but SV seems to bring more of a cutting edge than MB
The area I think MW wind is in temperament under pressure, although SV has proven the usual detractors wrong several times by coming through the field without losing his rag there is still the need to suspect him of being weak in this area, he didn't help with the Karthekeyan affair as his rage clearly got the better of him and detracted from his race
However he might improve on this
What I find funny is how those all over themselves last year to hail him a model character, the perfect role model for kids, a suitable groom for Bernies daughters, the second coming of the lord etc etc have now gone silent after one small incident or even worse taken it as a chance to slaughter him
I think so far this season he has answered all questions apart from middle fingering antics, MW is good but just not good enough or consistent enough and can't seem to get best out of a crap car, mind you it could be that SV has the same Button weakness of needing a perfect car but I don't think so, I think the kid is a natural and so could get the best out of a tractor
Finally, even though SV has lost the 'magic button' one lap boost given to him last year by the regulations and team, he is no worse over the race and I believe still capable of thrashing MW when he gets the hang of the new regime
For me in racing speed is directly correlated to bravery, if one is on the motorway going flat out, the braver you are the longer your pedal stays glued to the metal. SB has this in spades, so does MW but SB also makes less mistakes has less off days and appears more committed. I think we are privileged to see the bravest drivers in the best cars but SV seems to bring more of a cutting edge than MB
The area I think MW wind is in temperament under pressure, although SV has proven the usual detractors wrong several times by coming through the field without losing his rag there is still the need to suspect him of being weak in this area, he didn't help with the Karthekeyan affair as his rage clearly got the better of him and detracted from his race
However he might improve on this
What I find funny is how those all over themselves last year to hail him a model character, the perfect role model for kids, a suitable groom for Bernies daughters, the second coming of the lord etc etc have now gone silent after one small incident or even worse taken it as a chance to slaughter him
I think so far this season he has answered all questions apart from middle fingering antics, MW is good but just not good enough or consistent enough and can't seem to get best out of a crap car, mind you it could be that SV has the same Button weakness of needing a perfect car but I don't think so, I think the kid is a natural and so could get the best out of a tractor
Finally, even though SV has lost the 'magic button' one lap boost given to him last year by the regulations and team, he is no worse over the race and I believe still capable of thrashing MW when he gets the hang of the new regime
I think we will have to wait and see. After the reset there is a clear winner at this point. It will be interesting to see if Vettel can reverse this and restamp his waning authority.
I think it might be a big gamble for you to decide Vettel is a "plug-n-play" driver after 3 races - 3 races he's been in the running for a podum in each of. I'll remind you again Webber has only beat him once. Mark is looking better this year its true but lets not get carried away.
You've kind of been pushing this "Vettel is no good without the best car" thing since Qualifying in Australia Ninja its almost like you had the theory worked out and were just waiting for the results to match it so you coould say it.
I count twice. Vettel's results: 2, 11, 5. Webber 4th every time.
I agree with you, by the way.
Sorry - I disagree. Webber has the upper hand in Quali but he's failing to convert that advantage over Seb in the race. Yes he beat him in China and what a great race he had and a great overtake but lets not forget that he started 6th and Seb 11th so without Seb having a great drive as well Webber wouldn't need to have overtook him.
Vettel finished clearly in front of him in Australia and was running in front of him in Malaysia until he messed up. I know there is a lot of woulda, coulda shoulda's you can put round Webber but to me its clear that Mark is closer to Seb yes but to say he is the clear winner I'm doubting. Webber has the advantage in quali, Vettel the upperhand in the race.
Very Hamilton/Button like almost
Not that I'm taking anything away from Mark's great start to the season. Its good to see as I thought he was pretty much on a downer for the entire of 2011 and wondered if he'd ever get back to form.
Ok. I meant when it came down to it Webber has only beaten Vettel due to his own pace once. I think its clear to say Malaysia was down to Vettel's error rather than Webber's recovering form.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
As MW has started ahead on the grid each time I think it's fair to say SV has done better during the race twice, instead of MW beat him twice
If you think that's fair, its not.
I'm not pushing anything. I'm just saying it as I see it. To say that I was waiting for Seb to fail to tout my conclusions completely ignores the fact that I have been quite open about having the same conclusions for a good couple of years now. Yes, my opinions are solidifying, and yes, the results are party to this, but what do you expect? I'm simply saying what I see, as I have always done. There is nothing for me to gain from knocking anyone for the sake of it.
By all means, defend Vettel if you feel you must. I will allow him to do this himself by proving me wrong. Something I feel he has failed to do. In fact, he is doing the complete opposite. Not just this year or over the past three race weekends but through the entirety of his career.
If we do take this season in isolation, and we should do that to keep things in context of the championship sometimes, then Vettel has been the slower driver with the exception of a podium gifted to him by a timely safety car.
It is not just me that is asking questions of Vettel, and I have no vendetta. Please take my comments at nothing more than thier face value, which is as an honest independent appraisal. If you don't agree with me then that is fine, but please don't try to discredit my opinions by second guessing my motives or by attempting to discredit me personally.
By all means, defend Vettel if you feel you must. I will allow him to do this himself by proving me wrong. Something I feel he has failed to do. In fact, he is doing the complete opposite. Not just this year or over the past three race weekends but through the entirety of his career.
If we do take this season in isolation, and we should do that to keep things in context of the championship sometimes, then Vettel has been the slower driver with the exception of a podium gifted to him by a timely safety car.
It is not just me that is asking questions of Vettel, and I have no vendetta. Please take my comments at nothing more than thier face value, which is as an honest independent appraisal. If you don't agree with me then that is fine, but please don't try to discredit my opinions by second guessing my motives or by attempting to discredit me personally.
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