Lotuses

[ExtremeNinja]

The point was about reviving the colour scheme and the idea was originally mooted out by Fernandes. Why do you deliberately go out of your way to antagonise debates? Anyone with a modicum of knowledge about F1 history would know that the current Renault livery is historically linked to JPS and the original Lotus. I mean a picture of Elio De Angelis has already been posted on this topic on the previous page with this very same livery. Sigh

Why do you think I am an antagonist? I have every right to disagree with you. If you take that away then it is not a debate.

If you look at my previous posts again then you will see that I have no dispute with the link with the current Renault Lotus livery to the old JPS livery and state as much (as if I need to). I'm not sure where you got an impression to the contrary. I posted a picture myself on the Lotus driver change thread of Senna in the very same Lotus.

My point is, what makes you so sure that Green Lotus came up with thier version of that livery before Black Lotus did? I don't believe you have any information to support that, so best not to speculate on the matter.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

The point was about reviving the colour scheme and the idea was originally mooted out by Fernandes. Why do you deliberately go out of your way to antagonise debates? Anyone with a modicum of knowledge about F1 history would know that the current Renault livery is historically linked to JPS and the original Lotus. I mean a picture of Elio De Angelis has already been posted on this topic on the previous page with this very same livery. Sigh

Also, I really don't appreciate the tone you are taking with me. Please get your facts straight before you launch your attacks and try to show a bit of respect.

 

[FB]

If we could please avoid making this personal it would be much appreciated. We all hold strong opinions but no one has the monopoly on truth, only their perspective.

Thanks

FB

 

[Quintessentially]

ExtremeNinja

My point is, what makes you so sure that Green Lotus came up with thier version of that livery before Black Lotus did?

Fernandes was the first to go public with the idea of reviving the livery. By all means feel free to disagree but at no point did anyone state that "the black and gold either was conceived by either team ". Talking of respect - It is a two way street and it goes beyond this thread.

 

[FB]

Just to repeat my earlier comment - please can we avoid making any of this personal, it's a motor sport discussion forum.

I have a recollection of the Fernandes Lotus team talking of going black & gold, I think there is some video of them changing the signs at their HQ to that colours scheme and some photoshop mock ups of their 2011 car in that livery but they never went through with it.

 

[teabagyokel]

In my book, neither the Black or Green lotus cars are faithful to the history of Colin Chapman's Team Lotus. Chapman was the innovator with regard to sponsors' liveries appearing on the cars rather than the national colours, starting with the red, white and gold Gold Leaf livery of the late 1960s.

So therefore, a true Lotus would be in the colours of its leading sponsor, namely the red and white of Air Asia or the red and white of Total.

 

[Slyboogy]

Someone here has stated that Renault are a minority sharehold in the Lotus Renault team....

Didn't they sell the rest of their shares last year?

 

[FB]

Yeah, Renault sold their 25% share to Genii, who sold them to Proton, and gifted them to Lotus cars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9267715.stm

 

[Quintessentially]

Thanks for posting that FB. That clarifies a lot of issues raised in this thread.

 

[Brogan]

The issue is about to be resolved once and for all.

There will shortly be only one Lotus in F1 and it will be the black and gold cars, not the green and yellow.

The word this weekend in Monza is that a deal has been struck between the Malaysian owned Team Lotus and Group Lotus, which is a sponsor of the Renault GP team, to end the naming conflict. Tony Fernandes is understood to be on the point of applying to the FIA and FOM to change the name of his team to Caterham F1 Team.

Although the details have yet to emerge, it’s likely that, to avoid confusion, the Fernandes team will retain the green and yellow colour scheme – although they will surrender the Lotus badge – while the Genii owned Renault GP team will remain with the black and gold colour scheme, with the Lotus badge. This will also apply to their respective GP2 teams, Caterham Team Air Asia and Lotus ART respectively.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/09/lotus-f1-conflict-to-be-resolved-imminently/

 

[Vortex]

I think id rather the Black and Gold’s lose the name too now.

The greens were first (to use the name) of the two (not that that legally counts for anything) but I liked them for it, I also thought the greens won the legal battle to use the name?

Anyway, I’d like the greens to block the black n gold's from using the name and not use it themselves either now and rename Caterham. Why advertise a rival brand?

 

[teabagyokel]

The conclusion that was always going to be arrived at.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Ha. I've been saying this since January. So the macho posturing has concluded and common sense has prevailed.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I guess it's all worked out for all. Fernandes has proven his point and Bahar get's what he's always wanted. Does this now mean that the Group Lotus history and records, with them all being in one place and owned by the Car Factory will now apply and will this affect history payments to group Lotus / Team Lotus ?

 

[Il_leone]

at the end of the day the two things that solved it was politics and money. So the idea of reviving such a great name in Lotus is a smokescreen..that I am extrememly disappointed to hear considering the stance of Gascoyne and Fernandes initially when they formed the team.

Also for Behar and his phoney Lotus Renault.... I don;t expect much if anything further damage the great name of Lotus

The Malaysian government had to get involved as well

The sad thing is the name Lotus has been wrongly used and abused

 

[ExtremeNinja]

at the end of the day the two things that solved it was politics and money. So the idea of reviving such a great name in Lotus is a smokescreen..that I am extrememly disappointed to hear considering the stance of Gascoyne and Fernandes initially when they formed the team.

Also for Behar and his phoney Lotus Renault.... I don;t expect much if anything further damage the great name of Lotus

The Malaysian government had to get involved as well

The sad thing is the name Lotus has been wrongly used and abused

Oh, come on. Cry me a river. All has worked out perfectly. Fernandes, who borrowed the Lotus name from Bahar now is the owner of a sportscar manufacturer and has a team in it's name. Bahar who owns the Lotus sportsar brand gets to keep a team in thier name.

There really couldn't be a better outcome.

 

[cider_and_toast]

There really couldn't be a better outcome.

Apart from one of the great names of F1 history being kicked around like a beach ball.

The real Team Lotus died in 1994.

I just wonder now, (and this deal actually hasn't been confirmed yet so it remains speculation) as I posted above, will Group Lotus try and claim the full history of the F1 Team Lotus and expect payments from FOM based on that history, After all, that would make them the third oldest team on the grid (after Ferrari and Merc) if that were the case?

 

[Brogan]

At this point, I couldn't care less.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

At this point, I couldn't care less.

...and I'm just glad it's over.

 

[Il_leone]

Apart from one of the great names of F1 history being kicked around like a beach ball.

The real Team Lotus died in 1994.

I just wonder now, (and this deal actually hasn't been confirmed yet so it remains speculation) as I posted above, will Group Lotus try and claim the full history of the F1 Team Lotus and expect payments from FOM based on that history, After all, that would make them the third oldest team on the grid (after Ferrari and Merc) if that were the case?

The petty arguing has stopped but really the Lotus name has been played with and I don't have faith in Proton in doing anything with the Lotus name...first thing they need to keep hold of is the Renault engines unless they want to build their own or are talking to others

Renault have suggested they will only supply two teams in 2014 when the turbos are ready and Red Bull is one of them so its going to be a battle between "Renault", "Lotus" and Williams .

I would have given Fernandes more respect if they said they wanted to revive the great name after saying the next win is the teams 80th not first

Unlike Behar his idea is to promote road car selling..i guess he will follow the trends of Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Ford who all try to use F1 to sell road cars but then jump ship when it is not worth spending the money. I'll be amazed if the team survives 5 years