Has anyone ever heard of the never ending story?....Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
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Has anyone ever heard of the never ending story?....
Il_leone
World Champion
lewymp4
I'm sure if he was promised it will be the best car would, he would not mind but I believe his head has been turned by his management company promising to make him money out of "Brand Hamilton or LH"
Ron once offered Hakkinen and Coulthard $2m net base and $1m per win bonus and the person who refused this was Damon Hill because he thought as World Champion he deserved more
Button took the Mclaren drive on only $10m a year despite being offered $15m last minute offer by Mercedes because he valued it long term for his career
So it is not always about the money
I'm sure if he was promised it will be the best car would, he would not mind but I believe his head has been turned by his management company promising to make him money out of "Brand Hamilton or LH"
Ron once offered Hakkinen and Coulthard $2m net base and $1m per win bonus and the person who refused this was Damon Hill because he thought as World Champion he deserved more
Button took the Mclaren drive on only $10m a year despite being offered $15m last minute offer by Mercedes because he valued it long term for his career
So it is not always about the money
I don't know why people think it is all about money when you get to the high end of drivers. They have more than enough money to see them through to their dotage, Jenson even bought his contract out from Williams for five million to stay with a team that nearly folded because he believed that was his best chance of winning and that proved to be right, but it was one hell of a gamble.
Basically money has sod all to do with it when you are a top and sought after driver, all that matters is making the best choice that you feel is suitable for you at the time.......
Basically money has sod all to do with it when you are a top and sought after driver, all that matters is making the best choice that you feel is suitable for you at the time.......
The Artist.....
Champion Elect
... And you know this because?.....
It's like when you *knew* what contracts McLaren and Mercedes were offering
or you *knew* that Hamilton was being offered less money than Button was being paid...
You don't know what's in Hamilton's head any more than any one else does!
EvilWhippet
Podium Finisher
No offense Button fans, but you've got to be pretty deluded to think the points total paints an accurate reflection of the performence gap. Hamilton lost around 100 points this year due to things out of his control and still finished two points ahead of Button.
Well done for picking some excellent wins over the last three years Jenson. 2011 was fabulous too, but Hamilton's been the better driver overall. By far, far more than two points this year alone.
They both have shitty beards that a manly 15 year old girl would be ashamed of.
Well done for picking some excellent wins over the last three years Jenson. 2011 was fabulous too, but Hamilton's been the better driver overall. By far, far more than two points this year alone.
They both have shitty beards that a manly 15 year old girl would be ashamed of.
EvilWhippet
Podium Finisher
Your riposte shames me.
racecub
Champion Elect
... And you know this because?.....
It's like when you *knew* what contracts McLaren and Mercedes were offering
or you *knew* that Hamilton was being offered less money than Button was being paid...
You don't know what's in Hamilton's head any more than any one else does!
I base my comments on what I see, what I hear and what I read. It's all any of us can do that come on forums and express opinions. I made the comments about the contract negotiations after reading the figures in an article in F1, and I accepted the addition of 'reportedly' to my post. Since it was printed in a magazine I imagine the ball park is somewhere abouts but accept it may not be.
No I don't know what's in Lewis head any more than anyone else does, but like anyone else I can try to imagine based on what I see of Lewis, what I hear about him and what he says. I made my comment about Lewis not running away from Button in response to another poster who said Button "was good enough to drive Hamilton away from Mclaren". You accepted that statement without question. So do you believe that poster is privy to what is in Lewis' mind? I've read multiple interviews from Lewis about his leaving and never once has there been a suggestion that he is worried about the competition from within McLaren. When I look at this seasons performances from the two drivers I find it very difficult to accept the statement that Button has driven Hamilton away.....but I accept the previous posters right to think that. Hamilton says he wants a new challenge. I'll take his word.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've had to re-evaluate Button over the last 3 years and have done so very positively for him and I put my hands up that I was likely too harsh on him. However, if I had to choose one over the other, and straight ability to win was the primary factor (i.e. money etc was not a factor), I'd choose Hamilton every day of the week.
riskitall
Points Scorer
its not about how many points you get in 3 seasons.its about how many points you get each season.
in 2010 lewis failed to finish 2 more races than jenson and still beat him.
in 2011 jenson was consistent,and lucky,but he did drive really well in some races.
lewis was inconsistent,and this made it easy for jenson.but jenson did beat him.
and this season,despite the points difference,it has been very 1 sided.lewis has been better than jenson in more or less every department.so its 2-1 to lewis.and when you think about it,with lewis's 6 retirements i think it is to jensons 4.and the underfuelling incident and mechanical problems lewis has had,to still beat jenson,just goes to show how much better he did in most of the races he had no problems in.
in 2010 lewis failed to finish 2 more races than jenson and still beat him.
in 2011 jenson was consistent,and lucky,but he did drive really well in some races.
lewis was inconsistent,and this made it easy for jenson.but jenson did beat him.
and this season,despite the points difference,it has been very 1 sided.lewis has been better than jenson in more or less every department.so its 2-1 to lewis.and when you think about it,with lewis's 6 retirements i think it is to jensons 4.and the underfuelling incident and mechanical problems lewis has had,to still beat jenson,just goes to show how much better he did in most of the races he had no problems in.
Yeah, but Lewis finished higher in the ones that he was in.
Lewis 10 wins.........but had to retire several times whilst in the lead
Jenson 8 wins...last one yesterday...... Lewis was taken out of this race by Hulk whilst in the lead
He also won at Spa........ ..................taken out by Grosjean
Last year ..........Canada..................taken out by Jenson..............(JB considers this his best win)
So Lewis was out of at least three of Jenson's wins...................
Japan last year ..LH was following JB in Q3 ... & Lewis didn't make it to the flag in time to get in a flier .....Lewis was fastest, but JB pulled a flanker...for pole position
Turkey 2010......pork..ies....but Lewis took the lead back...
ETC..
Jenson 8 wins...last one yesterday...... Lewis was taken out of this race by Hulk whilst in the lead
He also won at Spa........ ..................taken out by Grosjean
Last year ..........Canada..................taken out by Jenson..............(JB considers this his best win)
So Lewis was out of at least three of Jenson's wins...................
Japan last year ..LH was following JB in Q3 ... & Lewis didn't make it to the flag in time to get in a flier .....Lewis was fastest, but JB pulled a flanker...for pole position
Turkey 2010......pork..ies....but Lewis took the lead back...
ETC..
Il_leone
World Champion
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I am sure if we switched Button to Prost and Hamilton to Senna people will say Prost had done better than Senna on points and podiums count despite Senna being the more faster on pure speed
Brundle said if Lewis was at his best Jenson would struggle to live with him and sure enough that happened during mid season I don#t doubt that but if the car worked for Jenson he was too close to Lewis for comfort
God, I'll be glad to see the back of this argument next season!
The relentless "MDIBTY" debate has become utterly ridiculous now (please note that "ridiculous" does not contain an "e", as it is an expansion of "ridicule").
Let the record stand that although I think Lewis is the better racer, I just prefer Jenson to him, and am not ashamed to take more pleasure out of watching JB win than I do Lewis. Perhaps it's because there's a sense that Lewis is expected to win, that Jenson's wins somehow have an extra frisson of enjoyment for me. I don't believe I'm far off the mark in saying that the majority of those of us who favour Jenson over Lewis probably feel the same way- that's the impression I get from reading the responses of one camp as opposed to the other, anyway.
"East is East, and West is West, and ne'er the twain shall meet"
The relentless "MDIBTY" debate has become utterly ridiculous now (please note that "ridiculous" does not contain an "e", as it is an expansion of "ridicule").
Let the record stand that although I think Lewis is the better racer, I just prefer Jenson to him, and am not ashamed to take more pleasure out of watching JB win than I do Lewis. Perhaps it's because there's a sense that Lewis is expected to win, that Jenson's wins somehow have an extra frisson of enjoyment for me. I don't believe I'm far off the mark in saying that the majority of those of us who favour Jenson over Lewis probably feel the same way- that's the impression I get from reading the responses of one camp as opposed to the other, anyway.
"East is East, and West is West, and ne'er the twain shall meet"
EvilWhippet
Podium Finisher
I'm not sure of that at all. Actually I'm not sure switching them for driver's who've not raced in nearly 20 years now has any bearing whatsoever.
Also, too close for comfort? In the last 5 races of the season - in races where they both finished - Hamilton finished ahead every time. The two times Button finished and Hamilton didn't, Hamilton was leading at the time. The car was "working for him" by the end of the season when Hamilton was strolling away in Abu Dahbi. In fact it was working for him in Australia when he won, but when he was getting lapped by his teammate in Canada this year's car was no longer working for him. However by Spa this year's car did, infact, work for him!
Wombcat
Podium Finisher
Il_leone, but the WDC is not about pure speed, it's about who gets the most points. If you want pure speed I'd suggest to watch something like dragracing. I don't argue that Senna was better in pure speed than Porst, but Porst was better in getting more points.
In the Hamilton-Button situation, over 3 seasons, Button was better in getting more points. He was also better in getting championship position (2nd ,5th, 5ht, compared to Hamiltons' 4th, 4th, 5ht). But Hamilton was better at getting wins and poles. But Button better at getting podiums.
It's all about what your defintion of being better is.
If I was to hire a racing driver, I'd rather hire Hamilton than Button (for the same price at least). Hamilton has more potential, but so far he hasn't been really good at proving he really has more potential (in getting points I mean) than Button. And that would mean I would not be willing to pay him more than Button at the moment, although he is definitely the faster driver.
But Hamilton did very well this year. He really improved to last (and earlier years). Then he always made some erors which really cost him. He didn't make any of those this year. He's been let down by reliability and has been taken out twice by another driver with no fault of his own. But in the end, the bottom is that the points count.
I think it's a shame that Hamilton leaves McLaren, but very understandable from his point of view. I think he his little chance with Mercedes to be running for WDC. And I think that McLaren would have a better chance with Hamilton than with Button. Button can become WDC, but he needs a good car more than Hamilton.
Over the past three years, Button did a lot better than I expected when he went to McLaren. I expected Hamilton to beat him easily. That didn't happen, and in fact (imo) they were roughly equal over those years.
In the Hamilton-Button situation, over 3 seasons, Button was better in getting more points. He was also better in getting championship position (2nd ,5th, 5ht, compared to Hamiltons' 4th, 4th, 5ht). But Hamilton was better at getting wins and poles. But Button better at getting podiums.
It's all about what your defintion of being better is.
If I was to hire a racing driver, I'd rather hire Hamilton than Button (for the same price at least). Hamilton has more potential, but so far he hasn't been really good at proving he really has more potential (in getting points I mean) than Button. And that would mean I would not be willing to pay him more than Button at the moment, although he is definitely the faster driver.
But Hamilton did very well this year. He really improved to last (and earlier years). Then he always made some erors which really cost him. He didn't make any of those this year. He's been let down by reliability and has been taken out twice by another driver with no fault of his own. But in the end, the bottom is that the points count.
I think it's a shame that Hamilton leaves McLaren, but very understandable from his point of view. I think he his little chance with Mercedes to be running for WDC. And I think that McLaren would have a better chance with Hamilton than with Button. Button can become WDC, but he needs a good car more than Hamilton.
Over the past three years, Button did a lot better than I expected when he went to McLaren. I expected Hamilton to beat him easily. That didn't happen, and in fact (imo) they were roughly equal over those years.
I think too many people are getting hung up on the overall points score as taking that as a pure metric, Button beat Hamilton.
However, over the three seasons Hamilton finished ahead of Button twice, Button ahead of Hamilton once.
There are numerous statistics which could be used to prove one driver is "better" than the other: wins, pole positions, podiums, etc. (I haven't checked who comes out best on any of those as it's a pointless exercise).
I'm not going to get into the "what if" scenarios as both drivers have suffered retirements through no fault of their own although I take the point that Hamilton seems to have had more than his fair share this year.
I'm fairly sure it's WDC (and WCC) position which counts and not points, as far as driver numbers, pit boxes, team bonuses and so forth are concerned.
A classic case in point being Caterham this year.
Still, I don't expect anyone on this thread to change their stance or view; the opinions are as entrenched as anything I have ever seen.
However, over the three seasons Hamilton finished ahead of Button twice, Button ahead of Hamilton once.
There are numerous statistics which could be used to prove one driver is "better" than the other: wins, pole positions, podiums, etc. (I haven't checked who comes out best on any of those as it's a pointless exercise).
I'm not going to get into the "what if" scenarios as both drivers have suffered retirements through no fault of their own although I take the point that Hamilton seems to have had more than his fair share this year.
I'm fairly sure it's WDC (and WCC) position which counts and not points, as far as driver numbers, pit boxes, team bonuses and so forth are concerned.
A classic case in point being Caterham this year.
Still, I don't expect anyone on this thread to change their stance or view; the opinions are as entrenched as anything I have ever seen.
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