Hamilton demoted again!

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

I feel the same has Brogan, Hamilton's biggest mistake amazingly is trusting his own team and 'singing along to thier tune'. Lets face it, International superstar or not He is an empolyee and proberly nievely thought that he should tow the company line. I am not a hamilton fan at all. In fact his usual attitude i.e his big-headedness the fact he feels he has a divine right to get his own way really annoys me. but on this occasion I feel sorry for him. He did not want ot put a spanner in the works at a team that he did trust and infact pretty much gave him a carrer by funding him and giving him openings that other drivers wouldn't of got, If you do it usally comes back to haunt you.
That article is completely pants, the writer at the times needs to get a relialty check on this one I think

 

[Speshal]

On the face of it, it could have been a decent article but he allows his hatred of Hamilton to influence it too much.

Oh I agree, and Matthew Syed hadn't been too complimentary about F1 in the past - but there were a few lines in there that I wholeheartedly agree with, and I'm a Hammy fan.

 

[Brogan]

Yes, there were some interesting snippets but it's just too much of an emotional rant for my liking.

It's looking increasingly worse for Hamilton as time goes by, that is clear.

 

[Bellabella]

You actually believe anything that comes out of McLaren cam?

the other site is seriously to be avoided at this moment.

Yes, I'd assumed that and came here instead!

If Hamilton did tell the Stewards something different to what he told jounalists then he is stuffed and was in the wrong. My comments above were based on an assumption that he wouldn't be that stupid. I still find it hard to believe that he would have done that. I'll wait to see what the Hamilton/VMM camp have to say before commenting again I think.

 

[teabagyokel]

I started to read that article yesterday but soon stopped when I read some of the words and phrases the author was using.

On the face of it, it could have been a decent article but he allows his hatred of Hamilton to influence it too much.

I think there is a point in there except for the fact that it was written by a journalist! Hence, the whole thing will:

• Exaggerate
• Talk only of the role of a media favourite in the team (Maradona wins 1986 World Cup on his own - I bet the other 10 Argies agree...)
• Forget it was they who made the "fairytale"
• Forget how they celebrated when the media favourite won
• Sensationalise
• If the facts don't fit, make them up
• Oversimplify

When I say oversimplify, I mean take the "You shouldn't lie" thing as a firm moral code for life. I bet that, as a journalist, Syed has never lied, made things up to sell papers or spoken out of context, except for the fact that that is his job! He should understand Hamilton more than the rest of us!

I know I seem to be defending Hamilton here, but I doubt that any driver, team or person has ever told the truth in a stewards' room if there is not a conspicuous advantage they could have gained from it.

And as for his whole career being tainted... when you say the name Michael Schumacher, do you think of him as a 7-time World Champion or the bloke who got kicked out in 1997? When you say Ayrton Senna do you think of a 3-time World Champion, a tragic accident or the bloke who ran into Prost in 1990? Yeah, me too! When he's being introduced as an after-dinner speaker, do you think that he will be introduced as 2008 F1 World Champion, Lewis Hamilton or 2009 Australian Grand Prix cheat, Lewis Hamilton (presuming he wins no further World Championships).

And maybe the Hamiltons are annoyed at McLaren. Has Syed's boss never annoyed him? Even though the Times gave him a job spewing his rubbish into a national newspaper, while most of us need to use internet forums and as such get less respect for our equally well-informed opinions! Maybe life isn't black and white, good and evil. Maybe sometimes you have to ally with Stalin to defeat Hitler. Just maybe!

Give the lad a break. And as for criticising him for leaving Britain:

1. The paparazzi were following him everywhere
2. Who was the last British F1 driver to live in Britain?
   and
3. Would you pay tax if you didn't have to?

Sorry, I hate journos. RANT OVER!

 

[bogaTYR]

croydon_bob

sorry for a bit of a delay in replying.

i agree that other drivers have probably told fibs to the stewards in their days for sure. but you have to agree that what we saw now, has not been seen before. i mean a driver and a director of a team going before the stewards, being confronted with evidence and still holding on to their original stories.

and frankly, i don't care who the driver or the team is. i care about F1 and i want to understand whats going on. and if it bothers you that people discuss LH in a thread called Hamilton demoted again, then there is not much i can do about that. i think i am allowed my share of amazement at whats happened.

 

[buxted-plump]

the point that nobody seems to be making is that lewis is clearly told over the radio to 'hold your position, we're checking with charlie' (he was told to hold his position at least twice), to which he replied 'i let him pass', (i presume this is the point that he slowed down and trulli believed it was due to a problem) i genuinely believe that lewis knew exactly what he was doing and trying to get trulli into hot water with the stewards for overtaking under safety conditions. very devious...........very schumacher-esque, i give him ten out of ten

 

[Brogan]

i genuinely believe that lewis knew exactly what he was doing and trying to get trulli into hot water with the stewards for overtaking under safety conditions. very devious...........very schumacher-esque, i give him ten out of ten

I don't believe that for a second.

Listen to Hamilton's radio just after he passes Trulli.
He specifically asks the team if it's OK that he passed.
He genuinely didn't know if it was OK to pass or not, and as we have learned, neither did the team.

To suggest that it was pre-meditated and planned is well, just one anti-Hamilton conspiracy too far....

 

[buxted-plump]

we'll have to agree to disagree on this one brogan (for now), why on earth would he give the place back to trulli after specifically being told to hold his position (maybe twice)? i'm sorry but i don't accept it he is 'coerced/misled' into lying/withholding information and goes with it because he doesn't want to go against the team but he ignores radio comms to hold his position (two or three times?)? doesn't look good from where i'm standing

 

[Brogan]

we'll have to agree to disagree on this one brogan (for now), why on earth would he give the place back to trulli after specifically being told to hold his position (maybe twice)? i'm sorry but i don't accept it he is 'coerced/misled' into lying/withholding information and goes with it because he doesn't want to go against the team but he ignores radio comms to hold his position (two or three times?)? doesn't look good from where i'm standing

Perhaps you didn't hear the specific instruction first to give the place back?
I think you need to listen to the radio transcript again as Lewis does not ignore any radio comms, in fact he does exactly as he is instructed.

He is quite clearly told to let Trulli past first and the subsequent order to hold position in front of Trulli is given after Trulli has gone past.

Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, I overtook him, is that OK?

Team: Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.

LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

(Trulli passes Hamilton)

LH: He's slowed right down in front of me.

Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.

LH: I let him past already.

Team: OK, Lewis. That's fine. That's fine. Hold position. Hold position.

When Lewis says "OK" it is just before Trulli retakes the place and slows down again, hence why he says "He's slowed right down in front of me."

I'm not sure how or why you're reading any more into it or why you think the instruction to stay ahead was given "two or three times" before Trulli passed?
The sequence of events is quite clear.

Perhaps you need to review the facts before making any more incorrect assumptions?
Your version of events is more or less the complete opposite of what actually happened.

 

[Amdathlonuk]

IMHO I think the team have NO IDEA what to do and are completely puzzled.

FIrst they tell him to let Trulli through, then they tell him to stay ahead.

I think they so worried they almost 'go along' when events don't go the way they want them to while trying to get clarification....

 

[bogaTYR]

charlie has given his impressions on what happened

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74394

"I was distinctly uncomfortable about Lewis's demeanour on Sunday [in Australia], and on Thursday [in Malaysia] I would say he was just doing what he was told to do," said Whiting. "On Sunday it was completely clear that he was telling lies.

 

[bogaTYR]

amdathlonuk

i think the fact the whole incident was not on tv did not help. even the tv commentators had no idea what was going on, all they saw was changes in position on live timing.

 

[teabagyokel]

charlie has given his impressions on what happened

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74394

"I was distinctly uncomfortable about Lewis's demeanour on Sunday [in Australia], and on Thursday [in Malaysia] I would say he was just doing what he was told to do," said Whiting. "On Sunday it was completely clear that he was telling lies.

There might not have been a problem if Charlie had answered McLaren when asked on the Sunday afternoon! Anyway, who cares what Charlie says, the FIA certainly didn't at Spa last year.

The whole damn thing was caused by the Belgian Grand Prix stewards! (If I haven't said that before, I meant to.) If there was a clear set of rules the whole thing whouldn't have happened.

Everyone knows he was telling lies on Sunday, how does this imply he wasn't doing what he was told to do?

 

[Brogan]

An alternative take on it from PlanetF1: F1 Drivers Are Perennial Liars

I say alternative but only in the respect of the press.
Many people have commented on forums here and elsewhere that other sports don't ask the competitors involved their opinion on incidents and instead rely on the data available.
The stewards have access to: telemetry, team radios, video and marshalls so there really is no need to ask the drivers who will give a biased account anyway.

 

[FB]

Great link Brogan, thoroughly enjoyed that and all so very true.

 

[teabagyokel]

That is spot on Brogan. Whilst what Hamilton and McLaren said and did was wrong, its a witchhunt and make no mistake. I see Ron Dennis has now gone as a sacrificial lamb, as part of the drive to remove anyone Max Mosely doesn't like from F1!

Its just getting stupid atm, and it needs to stop!

 

[Bellabella]

That is spot on Brogan. Whilst what Hamilton and McLaren said and did was wrong, its a witchhunt and make no mistake. I see Ron Dennis has now gone as a sacrificial lamb, as part of the drive to remove anyone Max Mosely doesn't like from F1!

Its just getting stupid atm, and it needs to stop!

This is rather unfair, the whole thing is about lying to the stewards isn't it? at least that was my understanding. Ron Dennis a sacrificial lamb? don't be absurd!

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Is it just me or has everyone compleyely and utterly forgot that Ron Dennis was already planning for his reitrement anyway. Ron Dennis a 'scracfical lamb'? sorry tebag but that is bigglest load of bull ive heard of a long time. Ron Dennis is a man who who stands up for himself and what he thinks does what he wants. He isnt gunna let Mr Moseley push him around or tell him what to do! for goodness sake he was on his way to retirement and leaving mclaren anyway slowing giving responsabiltiy to others within his team so what would be point. His departure has proberly qiuckened the process to try an save face on what is a embarassing sef-inflicted situation at McLaren.
although I havent been too vocal round here bout this debate this is my last comment on the matter!
ITs desending into a FIA hachet job vs Mclaren lying cheating scumbags and that is both a load of bull and completely wrong.
and its also not wny i join motorsport/f1 forums for.

 

[bogaTYR]

Is it just me or has everyone compleyely and utterly forgot that Ron Dennis was already planning for his reitrement anyway. Ron Dennis a 'scracfical lamb'? sorry tebag but that is bigglest load of bull ive heard of a long time.

no, you're not the only one. but statements like that are, as i found out, impossible to make without being called a hater, a traitor or even worse. even on this board. so i stopped writing certain articles and reactions on some articles.