Hamilton demoted again!

[bogaTYR]

it gets worse

apparently the stewards have come out saying LH deliberately lied to them. if FIA indeed can prove this, then LH is in big problems.

 

[RickD]

here's what whitmarsh had to say. why the blame towards race control...

"We are disappointed by what has happened but in the circumstances we are not going to appeal," said McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh.
He added: "There is no implication that Lewis lied to the stewards.
"As I understand there is a belief that the team was not explicit enough in the content of the radio communications to the stewards.

"What they believe is that the omission of the information about the radio communication between the team was withheld and that is misleading.
"I believe it was a harsh decision. Lewis made a legitimate pass and then was repassed - at the time the team asked race control several times about the repass but they were too busy to answer that question so we felt the decision in the immediate aftermath was fair.
"I think it's a regrettable day. It certainly wasn't a deliberate attempt (to mislead the stewards)."

So, what exactly are all the people at race control so busy with that they couldn't answer a legitimate question about overtaking under a yellow flag from a team near the front?!? The safety car was out and there wasn't much else going on at the time. I am starting to revise my position on this and going back to blaming the stewards/FIA for this farce instead of MW/LH lying.

As you know, I am a Button/LH fan and would usually defend them, but initially thought in this case that if it was a case of lying, then LH should be hung out to dry. From the above, it seems that they didn't do anything wrong, they really were just worried about getting punished (can't really blame them for that, but someone at VMM needs to scour the rules).

 

[Speshal]

Oh dear, here we go again

Not exactly just reward for what was a great drive in a not so great car...

Agreed and yes watching the other place is very amusing

I though the stewards were meant to be publishing their reasoning this year or has that been shelved too? SO far not a squeak on the FIA's website.

 

[bogaTYR]

the other place even deleted one posting from yours truly. whatever next?

 

[Brogan]

Of course the real irony is Hamilton has lost a guaranteed 4th place through no fault of his own.
If Trulli hadn't slid off by going too hot into the corner on cold tyres then they would have just followed the safety car around until the end of the race.

You can't help thinking that McLaren are so wary of the FIA and stewards after last season that they are now starting to question their own judgement when it comes to the rule book.

P.S. What's this "other place" everyone keeps referring to?

 

[bogaTYR]

the other place?

a bro, thats just a pub across the road. you go for a pint there cos its cheap and then whilst taking your first sip you suddenly remember why the pint is so cheap. warm, stale and its really Cola. so then one needs up here! where the real stuff is served.

 

[bogaTYR]

official VMM statement

"Vodafone McLaren Mercedes understands that the Stewards made their decision on the basis of reviewing radio transmissions between the driver and the Team

The Team mistakenly believed that the radio transmissions had been reviewed by the FIA on Sunday 29th March 2009, and consequently did not believe it was necessary to discuss them with the Stewards on that date.

Nonetheless, the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team now regrets that it did not do so, accepts the Stewards' decision and will not appeal."

or to put it simple, sounds like the team told LH to slow down. then LH went to the stewards and when asked if he slowed down on purpose he said no.

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

the other place?

a bro, thats just a pub across the road. you go for a pint there cos its cheap and then whilst taking your first sip you suddenly remember why the pint is so cheap. warm, stale and its really Cola. so then one needs up here! where the real stuff is served.

, i think that sums it up perfectly

 

[veravista]

My initial comments were not about some fanboy rant about the demotion of Hamilton (as per the other place), it is about the principle of the penalty. A punishment for deliberately misleading Race Control and/or the stewards sets a dangerous precedent, it sets in place the spectre of retrospective punishments based on what is perceived to have happened during a race. Given that a racing driver will only give his own version of events then the same ruling could apply to virtually every controversial incident that happened last year, and indeed every season preceding that. The excuse that a driver had let a team mate pass (my tyres were going off and I couldn't hold him off) to enhance his standing in the WDC could be seen as misleading the stewards, therefore both drivers and the team will be guilty, even though every man and his dog knows that this happens on a regular basis.

 

[Speshal]

So, from what my addled brain can gather, is it something along the lines of....

McLaren - "right well the stewards will have listened to the radio feed before the enquiry so no need to mention that."

Stewards (later on) - "Why didn't you tell us what was said on the radio."

McLaren - "errr we thought you already knew so didn't bother telling you"

Stewards - "Righty - you omitted to tell us things so we are disqualifying you"

Is that it?

 

[bogaTYR]

nope, seems more like

McLaren - "right well the stewards will have listened to the radio feed before the enquiry so no need to mention that."

Stewards - "Lewis boy, did you slow down on purpose?

Lewis - "No sir, I did not

Stewards (later on) - "Why did you tell us you did not slow down while it was said on the radio."

McLaren - "errr we thought you already knew so didn't bother telling you"

Stewards - "Righty - you have told us a fib so we are disqualifying you"

 

[Speshal]

Sounds about right!

 

[Boyle]

So let me get this straight. Lewis said that he slowed down to let Jarno pass to the press and has then proceeded to give a completely different account of things to the stewards/race control/whatever. Now has he told the stewards that Trulli passed him and he didn't in fact let him past on his own accord. If this is the case then the penalty may be justified. But, as we all know, we just don't know what the heck is going on when the FIA is involved!

 

[Boyle]

Here's Martin Whitmarsh's view on the whole thing.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74152

 

[Brogan]

Some more pertinent comments from Whitmarsh, expanding on what boga posted earlier:

Explaining exactly what happened after Hamilton overtook Trulli, when the Toyota driver ran off the track at the final corner, Whitmarsh said McLaren had been trying to play it safe.

"As we see it, what happened here is that during the closing stages of the Australian Grand Prix, under difficult conditions, there was a safety car incident whereby Jarno Trulli fell off the circuit and Lewis [Hamilton] could legitimately pass Trulli. I don't think that is in question," he explained.

"Once that had happened, of course, the team could not see it. Lewis informed the team that he had passed Trulli – and there was understandably concern within the team that he had passed Trulli under a safety car.

"At that time, we did not know that Trulli was right off the circuit and Lewis was asked to give back the place to Trulli. That was a team view, having not seen it, and we thought it was the safest thing to do.

"Once that instruction was given to Lewis, he did not agree. He said: ‘Look, the guy was off the circuit, I didn't need to do this.' A discussion was occurring and before that discussion was finished, Trulli had re-passed. If we look at the speed traces at that time, and compare it to other periods behind the safety car, then Lewis did not do anything abnormal. And I think it is also quite clear that Trulli should not have re-passed.

"As soon as that happened, we then spoke to Race Control, to explain that and ask if we could retake that place. At the time, understandably Race Control was busy and they were not able to give us an answer. We asked several times, but clearly they were very busy. So we had to then deal with it. We felt it would be resolved by the stewards after the race.

"At the stewards' meeting, we mistakenly believed that the stewards were aware, Charlie [Whiting] was there, and the FIA was there, of that radio conversation. The stewards now believe that we were not explicit enough about that radio conversation, and felt therefore that that was prejudicial to the decision that they reached. Obviously we regret that, and that was a mistake by the team, but we have got to accept the decision that has now been made."

For me the key items are in red.

The team told Hamilton he let Trulli back past as they did not see that Trulli was off the circuit when he passed him.
Hamilton clearly did not agree and whilst they were arguing about it, Hamilton had slowed under instructions from McLaren and Trulli duly went past.

For race control and the stewards to be "too busy" to respond to repeated requests for clarification on such a crucial issue is unacceptable.
Also, they had plenty of time after the race to review all radio transmissions before making a decision so not to do so is again negligence on their part.

Are the stewards also going to be penalised for not doing their job properly?

 

[bogaTYR]

all very nice bro,

but this is what LH said on sunday

However, speaking as he emerged from parc ferme, Lewis told SPEEDtv.com: ‘I was behind Trulli under the safety car, and clearly you’re not allowed to overtake under the safety car. But he went off in the second to last corner, he went wide on the grass, I guess his tyres were cold. And I was forced to go by. I slowed down as much as I could. I was told to let him back past, but I mean... I don’t know if that’s the regulations, and if it isn’t, then I should have really had third.’

In a team statement Trulli corroborated Hamilton’s story by insisting that the McLaren had slowed down and pulled over so dramatically that Jarno ‘thought he had a problem.’

in the words of whitmarsh this now becomes: Trulli had re-passed.

 

[RickD]

Seems to me like it all down to bad Stewarding once again. How can they get away with this race after race in a worldwide, multi-million pound 'sport'?!?

Something stinks..

 

[bogaTYR]

and here it is

Stewards Decision - Australian GP

02/04/2009

PENALTY IMPOSED ON DRIVER NO 1 LEWIS HAMILTON AND COMPETITOR VODAFONE MCLAREN MERCEDES

SUMMARY OF KEY CONSIDERATIONS

At the first hearing following the Australian Grand Prix the Stewards did not have the benefit of the radio exchanges between driver No 1 Lewis Hamilton and his Team Vodafone McLaren Mercedes nor did they have access to the comments to the Media given by Lewis Hamilton immediately after the end of the race.

From the video recordings available to the Stewards during the hearing it appeared that Jarno Trulli’s car left the track and car No 1 moved into third place. It then appeared that Trulli overtook Hamilton to regain third place, which at the time was prohibited as it was during the Safety Car period.

During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

The new elements presented to the Stewards several days after the 2009 Australian Grand Prix which led to the reconvened Stewards Meeting clearly show that:

a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass.

The Stewards, having learned about the radio exchanges and the Media interview, felt strongly that they had been misled by the driver and his Team Manager which led to Jarno Trulli being unfairly penalised and Lewis Hamilton gaining third place.

 

[Brogan]

Makes you wonder why they would inform the stewards they had denied giving the instruction to let Trulli past when it had been given over the radio and Hamilton confirmed it to the press after the race.

What on earth are McLaren playing at?
Did they think the stewards wouldn't read the press reports or listen to the radio transcripts?

The radio traffic and press interview recordings are available from the FIA website here: Stewards Decision - Australian GP

 

[bogaTYR]

i wish i knew bro. maybe someone is not too clever