Hamilton demoted again!

veravista

Rookie
Well, a season of promise descends early into farce with the news that Hamilton has been excluded from the results for providing 'misleading information' to the stewards! I'm sorry, but were the stewards watching the TV coverage or the race? Have they got a clue?
So now we have the situation, pending diffuser appeals and the like, that the Australian GP results could be completely turned on their head - with a top three consisting of drivers finishing midfield.
I'm losing interest already.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
no one saw what happened cos the incident was not on TV.

"The Stewards having considered the new elements presented to them from the 2009 Australian Formula One Grand Prix, consider that driver No 1 Lewis Hamilton and the competitor Vodafone McLaren Mercedes acted in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the Stewards at the hearing on Sunday 29th March 2009, a breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code."

LH lied to the stewards. can you please tell me what is right about that? and also, please tell me why this is the fault of the stwards?
 

veravista

Rookie
Because Hamilton, along with all other racing drivers, have their own spin on events. The apportioning of blame is always subjective, most true racing fans would say that the Kubica/Vettel crash was a racing incident and yet the stewards managed to apportion blame in that.
The incident was behind the safety car, there are marshalls all over the track, there are live TV feeds available to race control, both Trulli and Toyota accepted that he was in the wrong. So will he be carpeted for misleading the stewards by falsely admitting he was wrong.
It's not the final result that jerks me off here, it's the sense of frustration at knowing that whatever you may see on the TV may not be what happens in the championship.
What next? Rubens will be demoted for clipping his front wing early in the race?
 

veravista

Rookie
So the result could be, in a couple of weeks,
1st Alonso
2nd Buemi
3rd Bourdais
See what I mean by frustration?
 
Although we don't know what Hamilton told Stewards, it is hardly likely to be at odds with what he told journalists after the race and that included a clear admission that the VMM team told him to pull over and let Truli back past him.

It should be noted that Toyota never accused him of lying to the Stewards, This is entirely an FIA inspired event. It stinks again of FIA cheating. As usual the FIA have brought the sport into disrepute.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
hello!

LH LIED!

apparently he was going 18 km/h when trulli passed!! told the press he had to brake cos the team told him so and then told the stewards he did not slow down but just went out of the way 'to read what was on the SC board". there was nothing on the SC board to read by the way.

this is not teams teling one thing or another, this is not charades. this is a clean cut case of a driver lying to the stewards with a demotion of another driver as a result. if you can find any kind of justification for that, then please enlighten us. i don't care who the driver is but this is beyond a joke.

so what is not clear about that? already after the race there were different versions of what had happened. LH said one thing, MW said another. trulli and toyota did not accept anything. its not possible for a team to appeal against a drive through penalty. at least get your facts right instead of just jumping up and screaming murder.

i agree with your point on stadings should not change after a race but there you are. that is just the way it is.

Croydon Bob: when they went to the stweards after the race, both LH and Jarno told their story. the stewards then believed LH. so already then they told different stories.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
veravista said:
... both Trulli and Toyota accepted that he was in the wrong. So will he be carpeted for misleading the stewards by falsely admitting he was wrong...
No, they admitted that there was little chance in winning the appeal, following on from previous appeal failures. That's not an admission of guilt.

Personally speaking, I would have preferred something like this to be the outcome

A straight demotion of one place for Trulli to 4th (By all accounts, and I think I remember seeing him going off, he did leave the racetrack, so shouldn't have been 3rd)
Hamilton to keep the 3rd place
A fine of e.g. Euro50,000 to McLaren and/or Hamilton, suspended for 3 races.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I half expected this based on Adam Cooper's article:

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2073

Basically, you can't lie to the stewards. If McLaren told them that they didn't tell Hamilton to let Trulli past, when in fact they had, then they've been very stupid indeed, since the FIA have transcripts of all the radio conversations now.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
GM, thanks for being the voice of reason. I do admit I am tad angry cos of the fact Trulli was demoted cos of another driver or team telling porkies. What to make of LH in this mess is unclear to me. But he certainly is not the brightest light on the grid one would say.

this article by the way, is only availbale for subscribers.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Yes, sorry I just realised nobody else can read it.

The main bit is this:

"When Lewis emerged from parc ferme he explained what had happened to myself and a colleague from Malaysian TV: "I was behind Trulli under the safety car, and clearly you're not allowed to overtake under the safety car. But he went off in the second to last corner, he went wide on the grass, I guess his tyres were cold. And I was forced to go by. I slowed down as much as I could. I was told to let him back past, but I mean... I don't know if that's the regulations, and if it isn't, then I should have really had third."

In the Toyota team's press release Trulli intimated that Lewis had let him by, saying that Hamilton had slowed so much that he "thought he was in trouble."

Later I bumped into BBC commentator Martin Brundle in the paddock, and we talked about the various penalties that were flying around. Intriguingly he said that the McLaren camp had said that Trulli had passed Hamilton of his own accord, which didn’t gel with what my own ears had heard earlier.

"At the end, under the safety car, Trulli fell off onto the grass and Lewis had no choice but to go past him, he was not on the racing circuit," the team's principal Martin Whitmarsh told the BBC.

"Trulli then re-took the place under the safety car, which ordinarily you wouldn't do so I know that the FIA are looking at it at the moment and doubtless we'll have a ruling in due course.

"That's our position at the moment and we will see what happens in the coming hours."

I did some investigating of my own, and it became apparent that after meeting with them Lewis left the stewards with a clear and distinct impression that he had not let Jarno by. In other words, Jarno had just charged past without invitation."
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
Thanks GM. this is what was on Speed TV too.

its interesting to know LH at the time apparently was going 18 KM/H and even waved to Trulli to overtake. Not sure how much of that is true though. One thing i do know, the other site is seriously to be avoided at this moment.
 
bogaTYR said:
the other site is seriously to be avoided at this moment.
Yes, I'd assumed that and came here instead!

If Hamilton did tell the Stewards something different to what he told jounalists then he is stuffed and was in the wrong. My comments above were based on an assumption that he wouldn't be that stupid. I still find it hard to believe that he would have done that. I'll wait to see what the Hamilton/VMM camp have to say before commenting again I think.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
I have to wonder why McLaren are so ignorant of the rules?

Surely someone in the organisation is aware that you are permitted to pass under the safety car if the car in front goes off the circuit, breaks down or slows drastically.
Why on earth did they feel the need to make up a story about it?
If they had just told the truth it's likely that Trulli would have kept 3rd and Hamilton 4th.

First race of the season and already it is descending into farce...
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
macca apparently just announced they will not appeal to this verdict and all the evidence will be made available. sensible thing to do.
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
well if ive got this right, that mamilton didn't have to let trulli past then did and then 'lied' about it to the stewards about it!

WOW someone has really has made big mess of things there :s,

on another point cause this seems to have been lost amonst the lastest hamilton-gate
does that mean trulli gets his 3rd postion back just actually havent heard that has happened
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
So, does this come down to MW telling LH to say something different to what he had already told the press?!?

Seems like someone must have told him to say something different, which doesn't look good and the punishment should incur at least a 1 race ban for VMM. Then again, Bernie can't run a GP with less than 20 cars, so guess that won't be happening.

Watdching the other place, it's quite amusing.. :popcorn:
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Yes, Trulli is now 3rd and Hamilton is dead last as he has been DSQed.

Not exactly just reward for what was a great drive in a not so great car...
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
here's what whitmarsh had to say. why the blame towards race control...

"We are disappointed by what has happened but in the circumstances we are not going to appeal," said McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh.
He added: "There is no implication that Lewis lied to the stewards.
"As I understand there is a belief that the team was not explicit enough in the content of the radio communications to the stewards.

"What they believe is that the omission of the information about the radio communication between the team was withheld and that is misleading.
"I believe it was a harsh decision. Lewis made a legitimate pass and then was repassed - at the time the team asked race control several times about the repass but they were too busy to answer that question so we felt the decision in the immediate aftermath was fair.
"I think it's a regrettable day. It certainly wasn't a deliberate attempt (to mislead the stewards)."
 

Andrea_Moda_Rules

Podium Finisher
RickD said:
So, does this come down to MW telling LH to say something different to what he had already told the press?!?

Seems like someone must have told him to say something different, which doesn't look good and the punishment should incur at least a 1 race ban for VMM. Then again, Bernie can't run a GP with less than 20 cars, so guess that won't be happening.

Watdching the other place, it's quite amusing.. :popcorn:
dunno bout a 1 race ban your being a bit harsh there RickD or is it?, I have to say its all a bit wierd its the sort of lie that a 3 year old tells then theyv'e been caught scoffing the choclate but the evidence is all over thier face. some crossed wires maybe it just seems well..... bloody stupid, espically for a team is usally so clean cut, professional, and have 30 years of experience in F1
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Well 2 things come out of this as far as I am concerned.

1. It does nothing for F1 and detracts from what was an exciting final few moments of a GP, robbing fans of the actual "result".
2. In the eyes of many, rightly or wrongly, it will just reinforce the view that the FIA unfairly persecute McLaren and/or Lewis Hamilton and I can understand why they would think that.

Most annoying of all, I have to update the bloody database again.... :D
 
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