Bye, bye Honda

[Bill Boddy]

Honda have made a shock announcement that they will quit F1 at the at the end of he 2021 season.

They have never got to grips with the complex designs currently in use from the first winter testing disaster. Where will RBR go now?

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[F1Brits_90]

my initial thought as i was mentioning on red bull, confusion as they stayed when getting reputation battered every week with McLaren & Alonso with GP2 engine which will follow them around. & in 2017 i wouldnt have blamed them for going we underestimated the cost & technology of the modern F1 power unit. so we are going pull out as we dont have the money

but when they having success with Red Bull taking poles, podiums & wins. with the brilliant max verstappen. yet now they are leaving. its odd.

 

[Johnny Carwash]

“Hello Cyril it’s Christian, about those engines of yours”

 

[F1Brits_90]

hi Cyril yeah we are going to need your engines. as Honda gone weird again, i like that your going to be alpine next year. because youve got a mountain to climb. as honda are here & your down there

Christian off

 

[F1Brits_90]

this red bull tweet has aged about as well. boris "2020 going to be a good year"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311722042610376704

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311939127177351168

 

[P1]

Ideally Red Bull will find another OEM to take over Honda’s F1 business. But that may be challenging as it seems Honda wants to redirect those same resources to electrification. Not clear if that means the people and facilities or Just the yen.

If they could sell the people, factory and IP, then it might be worth it for another OEM to take it over. The question then is who:
- VW (or Audi or Porsche) could be an option. But if I was them I would be deterred to take on Mercedes and lose
- BMW - unlikely - not a big investor in racing - although they have a lot to gain given they have been losing share to Mercedes
- Hyundai - Hyundai area rising star in the industry and have shown a willingness to make long term investments. This could provide a global platform for their Genesis brand. But they typically don’t do much racing.
- Ford/GM/FCA can’t afford it
- Toyota - would be an ideal buyer especially since they can easily absorb the Japanese R&D team. They dominated WEC for 3 years and maybe it is time for them to make the next step. They are also committed to hybrid tech and seem less excited about electrification than other brands.

 

[RasputinLives]

Looking at the impact of the world outside F1 it's interesting to read between the lines on Honda's statement where they talk about investing in other avenues including EV etc - to me it suggests that Honda as an organisation has decided the Hybrid tech is not the way forward in car manufacturing and they need to reallocate their resources.

Big news when you think Honda are pretty much the leading hybrid car builder.

 

[FB]

Watch out for a Honda Hypercar in endurance racing!

 

[RasputinLives]

and, as I just put in another thread, a Honda link up with a Formula E team

 

[Il_leone]

I am waiting on a grovelling apology to Renault for Red Bull

 

[Il_leone]

Ideally Red Bull will find another OEM to take over Honda’s F1 business. But that may be challenging as it seems Honda wants to redirect those same resources to electrification. Not clear if that means the people and facilities or Just the yen.

If they could sell the people, factory and IP, then it might be worth it for another OEM to take it over. The question then is who:
- VW (or Audi or Porsche) could be an option. But if I was them I would be deterred to take on Mercedes and lose

These rumours have been going for a while but both brands are competing in Formula E so not sure they are keen to plough into F1 especially after diesel gate scandal. Red Bull would have to subsidise the engines you feel

- BMW - unlikely - not a big investor in racing - although they have a lot to gain given they have been losing share to Mercedes

No chance they left F1 when they were getting beat and enjoying FE given it suits their I car series

- Hyundai - Hyundai area rising star in the industry and have shown a willingness to make long term investments. This could provide a global platform for their Genesis brand. But they typically don’t do much racing.

Not sure why they need F1 given there is no grand prix in it's own country to help

- Ford/GM/FCA can’t afford it

The Ford company today ain't the one people remember back in 70 s and 80s

- Toyota - would be an ideal buyer especially since they can easily absorb the Japanese R&D team. They dominated WEC for 3 years and maybe it is time for them to make the next step. They are also committed to hybrid tech and seem less excited about electrification than other brands.

Definitely not after their last disastrous venture into F1

 

[Il_leone]

Last time Honda left they spent over $1 billion to get 1 win in 10 years after citing financial crisis as the reason
not sure if they have anything like that but the pandemic may have a part to play with that.

Also they are having a rough time in MotoGp with their star rider out and the bike is having to be redesigned due to the sheer difficulty in making it work so maybe some resources need to go there

 

[Il_leone]

I was not expecting this announcement from Honda but how do Liberty Media make F1 more attractive to other engines?

 

[RasputinLives]

The real question should be how do Liberty Media convince Mercedes/Ferrari they want to give other engine manufacturers a fair chance to be competitive.

 

[P1]

The real question should be how do Liberty Media convince Mercedes/Ferrari they want to give other engine manufacturers a fair chance to be competitive.

Ferrari is giving other engine manufacturers a fair chance. They have been going backwards to give others an edge. They really helped out Renault and Honda this year.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Honda really are the Hokey Cokey of manufacturers.

How desperately could F1 do with the likes of Judd, Illmor, Mugen, Hart and Ford when they were all genuine independent engine manufacturers?

They may not have built the quickest engines but they kept teams free from the restrictions placed on them as mere customers of the big boys.

 

[RasputinLives]

Where does the new thingy agreement stand on new engine suppliers? I know new teams have to pay the other teams a massive amount of money in the first few years for the privilege of sharing the same air as them.

 

[Galahad]

Forget about new manufacturers coming in, F1 have got their hands full holding on to the remaining ones they've got. Mass OEMs are going to disassociate themselves from F1 as long as the powertrain is internal combustion-based. Renault are making a partial withdrawal by rebranding to Alpine next year, and much of the marketing spend - and therefore the R&D - will be redirected to more future-oriented activity.

Mercedes are already doing Formula E and I can see them selling the team to Wolff when the time is right. There are still independent engine manufacturers, cider_and_toast - the Chevy Indycar engine is built by Ilmor, Cosworth are still going and Gibson are supplying the LMP2 WEC cars. Many others I'm forgetting too I'm sure. But nobody in F1 sees that as the future.

Without the manufacturers, many of the top drivers (and designers, engineers) would be facing massive salary cuts. But there's no other series - yet - that would pay them nearly as well, so maybe it wouldn't matter? Not to the youngsters, but if you've made your money and won championships, it might be beneath your dignity to drive for 25% of your "worth", as you see it. Interesting times.

 

[cider_and_toast]

In a Motorsport Magazine online article today they were speculating that Mercedes may well depart at the end of 2021 and revert to purely supplying engines.

As you said Galahad, there are plenty of engine manufacturers who would build engines for F1 if they were paid to do so.

I think its clear that the 2022 regulations must include a more forward thinking engine.

Dear old Bernie wanted the manufacturers to come into the sport because of their spending power. They would put more cash into the system and be more marketable. The trade off being they needed to be kept sweet to stay in the sport. As we saw in 08/09 when the going gets tough, the manufacturers get going.

 

[F1Brits_90]

which is why cider_and_toast without being so drastic. i think that budget cap has maybe saved the sport because these big manufacturers spending 400m, 327m & 237m were helping the sport but killing it

on similar but separate point. is the move to hybrid engines which had good intentions. 1 of the worst decisions F1 has ever made because the sport has gone downhill ever since