Bye, bye Honda

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
How has it saved the sport? No one new can now join the sport without paying the other competitors large amounts of cash. This means any incoming team would have to pay 25% more a year than the budget cap for the first 3 years. It will make it impossible for anyone new to enter the sport as that first stint will kill them. We basically now have a monopoly.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Forget about new manufacturers coming in, F1 have got their hands full holding on to the remaining ones they've got. Mass OEMs are going to disassociate themselves from F1 as long as the powertrain is internal combustion-based. Renault are making a partial withdrawal by rebranding to Alpine next year, and much of the marketing spend - and therefore the R&D - will be redirected to more future-oriented activity.

Mercedes are already doing Formula E and I can see them selling the team to Wolff when the time is right. There are still independent engine manufacturers, cider_and_toast - the Chevy Indycar engine is built by Ilmor, Cosworth are still going and Gibson are supplying the LMP2 WEC cars. Many others I'm forgetting too I'm sure. But nobody in F1 sees that as the future.

Without the manufacturers, many of the top drivers (and designers, engineers) would be facing massive salary cuts. But there's no other series - yet - that would pay them nearly as well, so maybe it wouldn't matter? Not to the youngsters, but if you've made your money and won championships, it might be beneath your dignity to drive for 25% of your "worth", as you see it. Interesting times.
Mercedes will be sold to Ineos if the rumours are true so they can go and win FE?

I don t think the Concorde Agreement can be torn up especially if Ferrari still hold the right to veto
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
How has it saved the sport? No one new can now join the sport without paying the other competitors large amounts of cash. This means any incoming team would have to pay 25% more a year than the budget cap for the first 3 years. It will make it impossible for anyone new to enter the sport as that first stint will kill them. We basically now have a monopoly.
that bit i wasnt expecting. & is a bit stupid

but limiting the costs of these teams was a must. because spiralled out of control the amount of teams that have pulled out, gone bust, or come perilously close to going bust is scary for F1. i still say the biggest miracle of F1 is that we have raced with 20 cars for so long as i said on the Williams a month ago. with Toyota, Honda x2, Lotus (enstone) HRT, Marussia, Caterham, Alfa, Racing point, Williams (technically Mclaren) . Haas have complained about the costs said they wouldve left if rules had stagnated, if it wasnt for ross brawn in 2009 there would be no mercedes. what matershitz realised his sponsorship has gone as far as it can. thats 4 gone

F1 because of the 200m needed to even get into Q3 was built on sand & all it takes is 1 engine or manufacturer. to cause F1 alot of problems
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
So basically the budget cap has made thinks cheaper for all the existing teams, who are all pretty much owned by the big businesses that forced all the little teams out by nor agreeing it back in the late 00's? Seems a bit like bolting the door after the horse(power) has departed. At least they'll save themselves some money.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
Bernie & the manufacturers (which is great name for a band) have blood on their hands. because they are who did this. saving money is lesser of 2 evils & i had hoped that it would help to improve getting some privateers back in because as i put in. Williams pull out & Haas follow through on their threat & F1 has 16 cars.

we need to get back to the 90s when we had teams main purpose was racing not manufacturers

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P1

Pole Sitter
One day Formula E will be Formula 1. So if we get to the point that OEMs don’t want to race ICE engines and consumers don’t want to buy ICE engines, the sport has to adapt. We are not there yet and Honda’s departure should not be blown out of proportion.

Also not sure if you saw but Renault Sport announced today that they are ready and willing to supply Red Bull and Alpha Tauri with engines. They also said they have not been approached by Red Bull and do not believe that they are Plan A. I wonder what Plan A is?
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect


I don't see expect to see VW group in F1 but it has been mentioned that both Porsche and Audi want to be in but they are both in FE. The other brand from VW is Lamborghini who have done F1 as well and a tie up with Alpha Tauri does make sense to give it an Italian flavour



So the hybrid could be considered an expensive disaster for F1 then?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
F1 has always promoted itself as the 'pinnacle', or even the apex ;), of motorsport.

Yet time and again it stifles innovation and lags behind other series.

**** off F1.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
So the hybrid could be considered an expensive disaster for F1 then?
that was my question is the move to hybrid no matter how good the intentions. is it 1 of the worst decisions in F1 history. because what its done, is have manufacturers to a minimum & engines are so expensive that they probably increased prices 5 or 6 fold. increased dominance & lack of competition

many years ago Christian Horner, did said something that most thought he's just annoyed as someone else is winning which partly maybe. but he was also being truthful. it was far cheaper to use a V8 engines every race of season. than it was for the R & D Costs to make a 3 power units reliable enough to make them last a season. we've got to decide if we want sport or technology

if 1 thing on F1 has puzzled me is how in year of unlimited testing, a new engine for practise, qualifying & race, 24/7 windtunnel use, loads of other things. it cost McLaren & Williams 120m for 4 cars in 1999. but with all the cost restrictions that F1 has brought in. according to the accounts it cost red bull £118.5 just to run 1 car in 2019
 
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Il_leone

Champion Elect
that was my question is the move to hybrid no matter how good the intentions. is it 1 of the worst decisions in F1 history. because what its done, is have manufacturers to a minimum & engines are so expensive that they probably increased prices 5 or 6 fold. increased dominance & lack of competition

many years ago Christian Horner, did said something that most thought he's just annoyed as someone else is winning which partly maybe. but he was also being truthful. it was far cheaper to use a V8 engines every race of season. than it was for the R & D Costs to make a 3 power units reliable enough to make them last a season. we've got to decide if we want sport or technology

if 1 thing on F1 has puzzled me is how in year of unlimited testing, a new engine for practise, qualifying & race, 24/7 windtunnel use, loads of other things. it cost McLaren & Williams 120m for 4 cars in 1999. but with all the cost restrictions that F1 has brought in. according to the accounts it cost red bull £118.5 just to run 1 car in 2019
That is a cheap car £118.5?
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Well Domenicali and Liberty Media need to rethink about the future of F1

Soon Formula E will be overtake it in popularity given F1 is on Sky and only 3 cars can win essentially and the customer teams can't even beat the factory teams
 
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Andyoak

Race Winner
If nothing else, Honda sell a lot of cars there; and they appeal to young and old.

There's rewards to be gained from winning in American Motorsport.
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
I'm afraid Dartman that all the 'motoring purists' with their Jeremy Clarkson jeans and their ever so smart comments about how bad EV is will be bug splat on the windscreen of an I-Pace within the next 10 years. They are pretty much the equivalent of the Horse purists who mocked the motorcar when it was invented.

Writing is on the wall. Get with it or get run over.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
The problem for F1 is that it has never, ever been about road cars. At the time when it was conceived as a class in 1950 there were numerous other series that catered for the different types of motorsport.

F1 has always followed road going trends. It has never lead them. Everything from semi automatic gear boxes to active suspension was applied on road going vehicles first. The aerodynamics advances were almost entirely copied from the aero industry.

F1 needs to stop pretending its about road car technology just to pander to the manufacturers of road cars. Having a budget cap is absolutely fine but, It should be all about designing the best cars and putting the best drivers in them.

F1 has absolutely no idea what it wants to be other than a cash generation machine which is the legacy of Max's decision to hand the sports commercial rights over to Bernie. Ever since the 1997/98 Concorde agreements, its all been about the dominance of one team for a sustained period. First Ferrari, then Red Bull and currently Mercedes.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
I'm afraid Dartman that all the 'motoring purists' with their Jeremy Clarkson jeans and their ever so smart comments about how bad EV is will be bug splat on the windscreen of an I-Pace within the next 10 years. They are pretty much the equivalent of the Horse purists who mocked the motorcar when it was invented.

Writing is on the wall. Get with it or get run over.
dont know who but someone said about electric cars & ive been there since the start. known about it since 2008. watched series from the very 1st FE race. but the invention of the engine was not the deathknell for the horse. also Formula E cant overtake F1 for popularity because it doesnt have the history. best way to describe it is that a great game as a neutral will be as good as game involve sheff utd. when F1 Good its better than anything

although he did have vested interests at times so people were cynical. what he said has in time proven to be spot on. about it was far cheaper to use a new V8 engine every race of season. than it was for the R & D Costs to make a 3 power units reliable enough to make them last a season. how we've got to decide if we want entertainment or technology. because otherwise we are going to be killing off the sport. i think its clear that F1 engines need to be vastly cheaper nearer 1-2m than the 15-20m. indycar are fine twin turbo V6 750hp. but 250hp more costs 20x times more

also was reading an old Forbes article from 11 months ago this has been coming for a while.
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