Blocking in IndyCar

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
I watched some of the race and I have subsequently watched this video and listened to the explanation but I still don't understand it :s


Is it the case that even if you're in front and have the racing line that it's blocking?
Surely not :dunno:
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
Atrocious rule. :o

Yes it was 'rightly' applied, but how the rule can exist in the first place is beyond me. It means you can't take different lines into a corner to attack/defend, how stupid is that?

I don't ever watch IndyCar, frankly I'm glad.
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
Thats quite an interesting rule and as i haven't watched much Indy racing lately didn't even know it existed.

It is quite easy to understand though, the key point being that it's mostly operated in the braking zone for a corner where you can't be on the inside line to the corner if your the leading car which castroneves (spell check) clearly was, defending the corner on the inside rather than taking the normal racing line.

I guess it does promote dives down the inside from following cars and thus potential overtaking but it must be a really tough one to define the actual braking zone, as we know in F1 that can sometimes go quite deep into the corner itself.
 

Bullfrog

Rookie
What an odd rule, if one applied it logically across the field, especially when everyone is bunched up like at that restart, then half of the race track is out of bounds to everyone except the driver in last place.

A highly artificial, and downright illogical, way of trying to induce overtaking. In fact, I'd even go as far as to say that it encourages overtaking at the expense of racing.
 

DOF_power

Banned
It's what F1 should be, in the past blocking was an exception, not the rule like today.
Thank goodness there still some reason in open wheel racing.


I think the rule was developed when Mansell came and used his dirty tricks.
 

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
From that vid all I can get is that essentially you're not allowed to defend your position. Great. Err no! In my opinion that's like saying a defender in football is not allowed to defend an attacker after a certain marker on the pitch. Preposterous.
 

DOF_power

Banned
Porceliamone said:
From that vid all I can get is that essentially you're not allowed to defend your position. Great. Err no! In my opinion that's like saying a defender in football is not allowed to defend an attacker after a certain marker on the pitch. Preposterous.



Guys like Dan Gurney, AJ Foyt, J. Ickxs think otherwise and I agree with them.
 

Porceliamone

This cost me a tenner, but so L'Oreal.
Contributor
DOF_power said:
Porceliamone said:
From that vid all I can get is that essentially you're not allowed to defend your position. Great. Err no! In my opinion that's like saying a defender in football is not allowed to defend an attacker after a certain marker on the pitch. Preposterous.



Guys like Dan Gurney, AJ Foyt, J. Ickxs think otherwise and I agree with them.

Absolutely fair enough that you agree and that they agree. Could you provide a link(s) or articles for me to read/view their opinions at please? It'd be good to see their stance on the matter to judge against my own views.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
DOF_power said:
I think the rule was developed when Mansell came and used his dirty tricks.

Of all the books I've ever read, TV I've ever watched, magazines and other motorsport media and forums I've ever come across since 1993 you are the first person to ever make that claim.

I don't understand where you are coming from. Sorry.
 

Matthew Little

Points Scorer
My .02 cents on this(your mileage may vary........)

I've seen some really, really dumb calls from IndyCar officials over the years, but the Iron Hand of Justice's Brian Barnhart's decision to give Castroneves a black-flag for "blocking" Will Power was the dumbest.

From what I saw, HCN didn't make one move down the start/finish straight outward from the inside of Turn 1 towards Power(indeed if you watch, HCN kept his line into the turn while Power swung wide to try to pass his teammate). Power's passing attempt caused him to wash up high, which is what allowed Scott Dixon to pass Power and eventually win(after HCN's penalty).

My first thought................... WTH? :censored: :censored:
My second thought...............WTH is Barnhart smoking? Seriously, all Castroneves did was HOLD HIS LINE GOING INTO TURN 1! He didn't block, he didn't push Power outwards and he didn't do anything different than what you would normally do at a circuit like Edmonton(just watch videos of Indycar races from Cleveland over the years.........many a driver did the same thing HCN did Sunday and no one ever said a word over it..............)

What was especially galling was BB's explanation of why he assessed the penalty. Apparently, in the Bizarro World of Brian Barnhart, no one can approach a corner on a road/street circuit and hold the inside line to the corner w/out it being called blocking................... :censored: :censored: :censored: .................
I would say more, but I'd get :censored: for what I'd like to say................ :o :o :o
 

Matthew Little

Points Scorer
slickskid said:
Thats quite an interesting rule and as i haven't watched much Indy racing lately didn't even know it existed.

It is quite easy to understand though, the key point being that it's mostly operated in the braking zone for a corner where you can't be on the inside line to the corner if your the leading car which castroneves (spell check) clearly was, defending the corner on the inside rather than taking the normal racing line.

I guess it does promote dives down the inside from following cars and thus potential overtaking but it must be a really tough one to define the actual braking zone, as we know in F1 that can sometimes go quite deep into the corner itself.

The rule makes sense if HCN had taken a regular line going into Turn 1, Slickskid, and then moves inside to block Power. As the video showed, HCN(Castroneves) kept going straight into the corner; Power made the move to overtake on the outside. That alone should've negated a blocking penalty; if I recall, while the leading car cannot deliberately impede a passing attempt by an overtaking car, if the overtaking car decides to pass on the outside(as Will Power did) then Castroneves has to stay in his line or else he gets called for blocking(which he eventually was, though BB's logic in penalizing HCN still escapes me.....). Unlike most tracks, Edmonton is very similar to the old Burke Lakefront circuit CART/ChampCar used in Cleveland and drivers used to take the same(or similar) line going into the Funnel Turn(a/k/a Turn 1) as HCN did in Edmonton Sunday.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
It does seem absolutely crazy doesn't it.

All it would take for you to get the driver ahead black flagged is for you to follow him into the breaking zone of a corner and then dive to his (or her) outside and push them into the apex of the corner.

:thinking:

It doesn't make any sense at all. What this rule means is that any driver has to remain to the outside of a corner leaving the inside line wide open for a pass and any time a driver behind tries to go around the outside of a driver then that means the driver on the inside line is blocking???

:dunno:
 

Bullfrog

Rookie
I got the impression that that was the rule. He said a driver wasn't allowed to be on the inside half of the road going into the corner if someone was behind him. By that rationale (it's a stupid one, but all the same) yes he was contravening the 'rule'.

I still can't quite believe that they have to dictate a leading drivers line into the corner, what next, denying them full throttle down the straight. This rule removes half the skill involved in passing someone, in fact it makes all the passes little better than Alonso's move on Massa this weekend as one driver isn't allowed to defend.
 

Matthew Little

Points Scorer
cider_and_toast said:
It does seem absolutely crazy doesn't it.

All it would take for you to get the driver ahead black flagged is for you to follow him into the breaking zone of a corner and then dive to his (or her) outside and push them into the apex of the corner.

:thinking:

It doesn't make any sense at all. What this rule means is that any driver has to remain to the outside of a corner leaving the inside line wide open for a pass and any time a driver behind tries to go around the outside of a driver then that means the driver on the inside line is blocking???

:dunno:

That about sums it up, Cider. :o
As I said in an earlier post, Edmonton is a lot like Cleveland and drivers for years would take different lines going into Turn 1 and the chief stewards in CART/ChampCar(Wally Dallenbach, Chris Kneifel and Tony Cotman) never said a word so long as the leading driver held his line going into the turn. Apparently in the Bizarro World of Brian Barnhart, holding the inside line going into a corner equates to blocking............. :o :o :givemestrength:
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
My favourite Indy race was Mark Blundell's first win at Portland in 1997 and just about every pass made during that race would get someone black flagged under these rules.

I think someone is going to have to review this pretty quickly because it will (and has already) been received with total bafflement around the world and that can only harm the image of the series.
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
From my opinion, it is a silly rule.

i think racing is really about defending your position, as well as trying to take a position. From what I can see, all this rule really does is disadvantage the driver in first position. I understand that the rule is there from a safety point of view, but surely it serves the same purpose as the singe move rule when defending a corner in F1?

I admit I don't know a great deal about Indycar, but splitting the track in half with an imaginary line just seems a little... artificial...
 

McZiderRed

Champion Elect
Supporter
I used to really enjoy watching Indycar back in the 1990's, before the IRL/CART split. I haven't seen much if any races since then, but from the look of things with this rule, I'm not in any hurry to start watching again...
(Not that I can watch it anyway, as I don't have the channel required. )
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
Supporter
I've watched quite a few IRL races this year and I can't recall this ever being an issue. Has anyone been penalized for breaking this "rule" this season?
 

snowy

Champion Elect
The worst thing about IndyCars blocking the inside line rule is it means you will never ever see a Lewis Hamilton type overtake round the outside! :o And what would they have made of Jenson and Lewis's Turkey tussle? Lewis was ahead going into the braking zone of turn 1, wasn't he?
 

Matthew Little

Points Scorer
cider_and_toast said:
My favourite Indy race was Mark Blundell's first win at Portland in 1997 and just about every pass made during that race would get someone black flagged under these rules.

I think someone is going to have to review this pretty quickly because it will (and has already) been received with total bafflement around the world and that can only harm the image of the series.

Time For TGBB To Go

Speed's Robin Miller pretty much sums up how most everyone who follows Indycar racing feels at the moment over Bonehead Barnhart'sBrian Barnhart's decision Sunday..................maybe this will finally give new IRL CEO Randy Bernard enough of a reason to get rid of Barnhart............
 
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