A Radical Idea

F1Yorkshire

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After reading RasputinLives Team Mate battle thread it got my brain working overdrive. We are trying to work out which drivers are better compared to another driver in a different team. Due to the differences in this generation of F1 cars it is like comparing apples to oranges.

The obvious answer to this problem would be to make F1 a spec series like GP2 and the new Formula E series starting soon.

Before you all start shouting saying what a terrible idea this is and how much it will stifle the engineering and ingenuity by the F1 designers who are constantly striving to squeeze every extra ounce of performance out of the cars, I think I may have a potential solution.

Currently in NASCAR there are 3 actual car manufacturers, each of these then sells their chassis to a team who compete against all other teams. This isn't too different to what we have in F1 as far as the engines are concerned. What I'm proposing is a reduction of constructors from the current field of 11 down to 3 or 4. The teams will stay as they are but the actual number of different chassis types could be reduced.

We could take the best designers from the Mercedes powered cars and put them together in a think tank, same with the Renault powered cars & another group for the Ferrari powered cars. Each team would be in charge of their own set-up and pit-stops as normal. Taking this season as an example, McLaren, Mercedes, Williams & Force India would have the same chassis so instead of one team dominating we would then have four teams with equal performance making the importance of the driver a key part of any team.

This will also help the smaller teams. The backmarkers would benefit from having more powerful cars and saving money on development means the end of pay drivers. The development of each chassis would continue over the season. Pooling the best of the design talent and spreading the cost would only improve the racing for the spectators as well as enabling new teams to get on equal terms a lot easier than the current crop.

There are plenty of positives to this idea but what do you guys think?
 
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soccerman17

Race Winner
Sounds a lot like DTM to me, but I really do like the idea. It will never actually happen because F1 is too traditionalist, but I still love it.

Random side note when I first saw this thread I was expecting a bad pun about the Radical sportscar company
 

RasputinLives

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I'm still pondering. But whilst I do so I'll highlight the fact that Formula E is only going to be a spec series for year 1. After that its a free for all and they've given them far more scope for development than F1.

Which might be the flaw in the idea. If there is no room for design and development might the bright technical minds take their talents elsewhere and wouldn't F1 be poorer for it?
 

KekeTheKing

Banned
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I don't think many people have an appetite for another spec series (or near spec series) even though you're occasionally treated to a two-car title fight. Although it did seem like the world was falling for some when presented with Mercedes domination in 2014.
 

F1Yorkshire

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F1 should never become a purely spec series. The development needs to continue and improve the sport. My idea is just a case of pooling the resources. We will have a more level playing field as well as having the competiton between the different manufacturers.

The last 6 years has been dominated by one team or another. This has had a detrimental effect on the racing and our regular unhappy voices are crying out for change!
 

gethinceri

Lance Stroll Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
As it seems I have plenty of time,
I'll provide my response in a rhyme*,
It shouldn't be done,
As it's Formula One,
And the way that it is is just fine.

Have you ever considered,
Other sports that have withered,
While modernists tinker and tune?
Their flash smoke and mirrors,
That their hand-sleight delivers,
Like Yanks landing men on the moon?

Though I'm a Formula One fan at heart and I relish the drivers' fine craft,
The days way back when cars were driven by men will ever be glued in the past.
'less some modern Barnard gets a sudden wild card to shake up the pit lane anew,
Takes the rule book in hand, ignores what's been banned, and gives it a kick up the flue.


*with apologies to anything that's ever been considered to be poetry.
 
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siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I'm not sure that what prevails today is so great: teams spending HUGE sums to find improvements that can be measured in frog hairs.

I'm not wild about a true "spec series" but remember that, back in the days when you caould buy a Cosworth and a Hewland gear box and thereby be assured of a competitive powertrain, it became possible for teams such as Tyrell, Williams, March, Wolf, Hesketh etc to come into being and for the likes of McLaren to not just survive but to thrive. Obviously that era was doing something right.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
You could also argue that the Cosworth era was a low point in F1's history given that it is not supposed to be a spec series. For me, F1 was at it's best during the first turbo era but then I just a sad old man...
 

jez101

Bookies drive nice cars because of people like me
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Pretty much the response I expected! Lets have the reasons why it couldn't work.....
Because magic like Marussia getting points wouldn't happen - they would just be Ferrari's [edit] fifth and sixth cars.

Because in an era of domination, you could have the top 8 all be one manufacturer :sleeping:

Because the secret agenda behind customer cars is greed. Not yours, F1Y, Luca's desire not to share the F1 revenues with the smaller teams.

Because it is not F1.
 
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F1Yorkshire

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Interesting response but lets throw in a rebuttal or two!

Because magic like Marussia getting points wouldn't happen - they would just be Ferrari's first and sixth cars.

Surely the likes of Marussia/Caterham & the two potential new teams would stand a far greater chance of scoring points if they had the same machinery as Ferrari/Red Bull etc? They may be the junior teams for the larger manufacturers but it would be a fantastic showcase for the younger drivers. When Toro Rosso scored their only win it was when they were using the same chassis as the Red Bull.
Because in an era of domination, you could have the top 8 all be one manufacturer :sleeping:

Wouldn't that be better than the current state of play of just having two cars dominate the entire season?

Because the secret agenda behind customer cars is greed. Not yours, F1Y, Luca's desire not to share the F1 revenues with the smaller teams.

F1 is always about the money. Surely any championship revenue will still go to the team not the manufacturer of the equipment.

Because it is not F1.

This has been the most common repsonse to this thread. I shall counter it with a question of my own.

What is F1?



F1 should always be about striving for the best performance possible from the cars. Competition between teams should continue as well as the development race that goes on. Nobody likes to see the likes of the Enstone team or Force India struggle mid season as they can't afford to keep up with the larger teams with colossal budgets.
 

jez101

Bookies drive nice cars because of people like me
Contributor
Surely the likes of Marussia/Caterham & the two potential new teams would stand a far greater chance of scoring points if they had the same machinery as Ferrari/Red Bull etc? They may be the junior teams for the larger manufacturers but it would be a fantastic showcase for the younger drivers. When Toro Rosso scored their only win it was when they were using the same chassis as the Red Bull.

The magic comes from the teams at the back having very little chance and yet them still achieving it. It wouldn't be a Marussia, it would be yet another Ferrari. The same as Vettel's Monza win was not in a real Toro Rosso.

I don't think it would be any different with pay-drivers. When a chap comes along with $30m and says can I drive one of your cars, and another says, pay me $1m and I will drive your car, nine times out of ten, Pastor will get the drive over Hulkenberg :(

Wouldn't that be better than the current state of play of just having two cars dominate the entire season?

No.

Yes, it has been nice to see Nico and Lewis racing against each other, but even then we have had the team taking strategy choices to keep the cars apart in the middle of the race. I can just imagine the call to Lewis, Nico, Jenson, Kevin, Nico, Sergio, Felipe & Valteri, "Multi four hundred and forty six trillion, two hundred and twenty two billion, twenty seven million, one hundred and eleven thousand, nine hundred and seventy seven"

Tell me when was the last season before this one that team mates were actually allowed to race each other for the victory?

What is F1?
For me, it is the pinnacle of motorsport where the grandees take on the garagistas. Where the bravest, fastest and richest men and women on the planet get to come and race.

I would much rather see a budget cap - however imperfect - than customer cars.
 

F1Yorkshire

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No.

Yes, it has been nice to see Nico and Lewis racing against each other, but even then we have had the team taking strategy choices to keep the cars apart in the middle of the race. I can just imagine the call to Lewis, Nico, Jenson, Kevin, Nico, Sergio, Felipe & Valteri, "Multi four hundred and forty six trillion, two hundred and twenty two billion, twenty seven million, one hundred and eleven thousand, nine hundred and seventy seven"

Tell me when was the last season before this one that team mates were actually allowed to race each other for the victory?

I'll just answer this part of your reply for now.

I think you may have misunderstood my vision. I don't want 3 or 4 teams with up to 8 drivers. Teams should stay as they are but using the same chassis as a few other teams.

Mercedes will still be in direct competition with the cars sharing the technology but there would be no strategy calls over another team.

Can you imagine what it would be like if more teams were on equal footing and racing against each other.
 
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