Technical A circular debate... tyres for 2013

Then why didn't Rosberg walk away with it every weekend like he did in China? (Or at least on similar circuits).
Because not everything is the same on similar circuits.

I'm not saying I have the answers, but I think saying that it's just a matter of luck if the tyres work optimal on a certain circuit is a step too far (or several steps actually).
A team designs a car with certain characteristics. This car performs better in some arreas and worse in other areas than a competitors car. One of those areas may be how the car is able to heat up the tyres, to 'switch them on'. Heating them too much makes the tyres wear too much. Not heating them enough means less performance. Track tempature is a part of this. A team has to cope with all these variables. If Mercedes has a small window in which it is totally perfect, then that may mean that in those circumstances they have a significant advantage over other teams, who may be more comprimised to accomodate various circuits and temperatures.

I'm not saying that is the answer, but the team designs a car and they all get the same tyres. They have to find the best package in various circumstances. And that's the skill part. There may be a part of luck involved, but if it was just luck, then HRT would have gotten some points in the first races. They were steadily at the back, so it's not just luck, it's mostly skill. A small part is luck, but they still needed to design a car. At the first race it was already obvious that the Mercedes was fast in qualifying, but lacked in racespeed. In China they got it perfect. There's a small element of luck that at China the circumstances were perfect, but they still had to design a car that was fast in that operating window. Thye bottleneck of Mercedes may have been that their operating window for perfection was very small, but if they were not in their perfect operating window, they were significantly slower, so much that they were practically nowhere.

Apart from that it happens more often that a team has a good start of the season, but lack in development. Overall Mercedes were going backwards throughout the season. They were better in qualifying in the first half of the season than in the second half. The same goes for their racespeed.
And in Spa 2009 Force India got perfection. Don't think anybody called that "just luck" then.
 
I don't think its luck or coincidence that teams were struggling in the first half and not in the second. And I don't buy the conspiracy Mephistopheles the tyres were not changed mid season. The same thing happened in 2011. The teams cracked it eventually and we all stopped talking about tyres. Says to me it wasn't random....!
 
I didn't say it was a conspiracy, tyre development just like car development is a continuous thing which is why they have their own test driver, so it stands to reason that the tyres being used at the end of the year were not the same as the ones used at the beginning....
 
That maybe so but there is more to a tyre than just it's compound, there;s its construction, its canvas, how much the tyre wall flexes the thickness of the rubber on the contact surface (Which definitely was changed, it was reduced.) the radius of the contact surface and so on....

What did someone once say tyres are a black art......
 
Thanks for that Brogan it also shows that Pirelli could if they chose to change the tyres which means I was not talking about any type of conspiracy, as I don't go in for that type of thing.....
 
It certainly wasn't just about the teams, the cars design and the circuits. Individual driving styles and their set up preferences were adversely affected by the narrow operating band. Jenson's style and setup preference struggled to get heat into his tyres quick enough compared to his team mate Lewis. Because of this he was unable to challenge for decent grid slots on Saturdays, come race day he was far more competitive and early on in the season Lewis's race day pace was painful to watch.

I could go on but bottom line is Jenson is right, The tyres were a :censored: nonsense at the start of the season and remained so throughout. Yes... have degradation but at least allow the driver to exercise his race craft, his individuality and creativity. F1 cars tip toeing around a circuit for fear of falling off a heat/deg curve is akin to watching paint dry, we want to see cars battling for every scrap of grip on and off line, over kerbs and across the grass/astroturf!
 
Although not at Spa and Monza, where they used a thinner gauge rubber....
I missed that, where did you hear that?

The reason I said 'conspiracy' was because I had heard from Pirelli via articles like the ESPN one that nothing had changed with the tyres at all. So, if they had said that and then changed them under the radar that would be a conspiracy to me :)
 
The Artist..... is correct, I forgot about that.

However the wheel rotation speeds are very high so overheating can be an issue and if the track temperature is high, this can create problems. Pirelli counter this heat build up by using a thinner gauge on the tread block; it is 0.3mm thinner. This year they are bringing medium and hard compounds, last year it was soft and medium

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/09/how-the-f1-teams-will-approach-the-italian-grand-prix/

ZakspeedYakspeed also posted about it here: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/red-bull-racing.3373/page-9#post-154743

I am struggling however to accept that 0.3mm would make that much of a difference.
Surely 0.3mm is outside the tolerance on these tyres?
 
Without any data from all the drivers using the other tyre, on the same circuit at the same time, it's difficult to draw a definitive conclusion.
 
Individual driving styles and their set up preferences were adversely affected by the narrow operating band. Jenson's style and setup preference struggled to get heat into his tyres quick enough compared to his team mate Lewis. Because of this he was unable to challenge for decent grid slots on Saturdays, come race day he was far more competitive and early on in the season Lewis's race day pace was painful to watch.
I don't mean to turn this into a Hamilton discussion, purely in the interests of tyres - which races? I can only think of possibly Melbourne.

I agree about seeing cars scrap over position and clambering over kerbs though lol
 
Pirelli apparently are going to make the tyres degrade more as the last few races notably India it became flat out sprints which meant cars just held track position and that was pretty much till the end of the race
 
The tyre changes for next year include:
  • Heavier
  • Higher degradation (except for the intermediate)
  • A wider operating window
  • A new profile (squarer shoulder) which will affect aero due to more deflection at the rear
  • A possible fifth compound
 
the one race it does not seem to work at is Monaco... Vettel won managing out of sheer fluke because his tyres did not drop and last year the cars were in line formation once they all did their stops and no one was fading or dropping off
 
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