Grand Prix 2011 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Incubus

Champion Elect
Not necesarily because a driver needs to have all four wheels off the track (as far as I know?) to be deemed as having "exceeded the limits of the track". When a wall (usually protected by a safety barried) constitutes the limits of the track the driver is deemed to have been squeezed, since he longer has the option of putting a wheel of the track's limits and so the driver doing the queezing is guilty unless he was clearly in front of the other car when the queezing took place.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Would Nick Heidfeld/ Di Resta be deemed a squeeze?

My only issue is that it seems like the rules can be easily worked around or talked out of, I still think rules should be in order to remove such types of scenarios, another issue was guys being driven of the road out of turn 1, to many gambles are being made, sure it was the easiest point to overtake, but the Webber on Hamilton followed immediately by a return by Hamilton on Webber which went into turn 1 was a classic case of racing for position as opposed to trying to run a car off.

EDIT: missed Brogan's post, sorry and agree the best place is the relevent forum. Can this be moved to that thread?
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Once again Mark Webber looked thoroughly displeased with his end result, three races running now. Mark must be wondering what he has to do to win.
 

ExtremeNinja

Karting amateur
Contributor
So in a similar circumstance only the advent of a wall is the determining factor? That is arbitrary in application and leads to more ifs and buts, universal application/general application is the way to go and that is for rules in general.
The fact that Hamilton and Button are team-mates somewhat adds to the debate as well.
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
Use Vettels car? :snigger: Seriously though, maybe if he could get a good start from pole and lead into turn 1 because three times this year he has had poor starts from pole and he has been 2nd/3rd on the first lap, if anything that isn't good for Webbers morale.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Use Vettels car? :snigger: Seriously though, maybe if he could get a good start from pole and lead into turn 1 because three times this year he has had poor starts from pole and he has been 2nd/3rd on the first lap, if anything that isn't good for Webbers morale.
It is a rather notorious hoodoo Mark seems to be carrying, Yesterday was a complete shocker off the line, but I think more than a start is needed, for some reason Mark Webber finds himself needing to pit at the wrong time.
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
Once again Mark Webber looked thoroughly displeased with his end result, three races running now. Mark must be wondering what he has to do to win.
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Go a little bit faster than Hamilton and Alonso?
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Forcing someone off the track is against the rules, but I have yet to see a driver get penalised for it, Hamilton does it a lot, as does Schumacher, as does Webber, a few others did in this race too, and in other races. Everyone has done it some point in their F1 career.

So why is it a rule if no one gets punished by it? :unsure:

The only time I can think of someone getting punished by it, was Buemi in this race, even though he didn't really force Heidfeld off, he started braking took his line into the corner and then Heidfeld comes along with excess speed, 50/50, but I don't think he forced Heidfeld off, that might be a bad example but it was all I can think off.

Another thing, how come they didn't show a replay of the Heidfeld/di Resta incident? Didn't see it once from a proper view in that race, just some smoke in the background at the start...
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Forcing someone off the track is against the rules, but I have yet to see a driver get penalised for it, Hamilton does it a lot, as does Schumacher, as does Webber, a few others did in this race too, and in other races. Everyone has done it some point in their F1 career.

So why is it a rule if no one gets punished by it? :unsure:

The only time I can think of someone getting punished by it, was Buemi in this race, even though he didn't really force Heidfeld off, he started braking took his line into the corner and then Heidfeld comes along with excess speed, 50/50, but I don't think he forced Heidfeld off, that might be a bad example but it was all I can think off.

Another thing, how come they didn't show a replay of the Heidfeld/di Resta incident? Didn't see it once from a proper view in that race, just some smoke in the background at the start...
Arbitrary application of rules, kind of like the 107% rule, Formula One powers to be have no backbone, the last was going against their previous decision to ban EBD's etc etc, if it is against the rules why revert even if it is the middle of the season.
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
Forcing someone off the track is against the rules, but I have yet to see a driver get penalised for it, Hamilton does it a lot, as does Schumacher, as does Webber, a few others did in this race too, and in other races. Everyone has done it some point in their F1 career.

So why is it a rule if no one gets punished by it? :unsure:

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If the driver in front is still ahead atthe time of squeezing, then he is perfectly entitled to take his line and it's up to the driver behind to avoid contact.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Back on topic ;)

I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's race, it was great to see 3 top cars all running together at the front, great bit of sportsmanship from Mark giving Fernando a lift back (great to see it wasn't punished too)
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
Back on topic ;)

I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's race, it was great to see 3 top cars all running together at the front, great bit of sportsmanship from Mark giving Fernando a lift back (great to see it wasn't punished too)
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I don't know whether it was made illegal a few years ago or or it was always been illegal, but tolerated before, but in any case you never realy see that anymore. It used to happen all the time and it'sstopped over the past 15 years or so. Last one I can think of Schumacher giviing Alesi a lift at the end of the 1995 canadian GP.L
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Didn't Fisichella get a lift off of somebody?

It has happened recently I know that, before this one anyway.
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
Yeah... I don't remember too many specific examples but you hardly ever see it these days whereas it was common place up to the early ninetines, especially during the turbo era where cars would frequently run out of fuel in the last lap.
 
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