Grand Prix 2011 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's turning out to be a strange old season

Mixed conditions and poor pit stops paved the way to an enthralling race, while it had one of the lowest overtaking figures of the year, it certainly showed that overtaking isn't the be all and end all of grand prix racing, however the two Mclaren drivers showed that overtaking can be exciting.

Of the runners and riders, Ferrari have made the biggest gain and maybe, just maybe, Red Bull have lost their monopoly over the top step of the podium and we might finally have a championship, however I'm sure I have said this after China and Canada.......

The curious case of Mclaren continued apace this weekend as they had no pace, found pace and then lost it again. In the changeable conditions at the start of the race, Hamilton and Button charged through the field until the dry conditions when the natural order reasertied themselves, however, it is hard to see how they really showed in fully dry conditions as Button lost a wheel nut early on and Hamilton had to fuel save for the latter part of the race.

Going into the German Grand Prix, Red Bull will understandably be favourites as Sebastian Vettel looks to extend his lead at the top of the championship as he continues in his quest for back to back champions (and the youngest to do so before I'm mistaken) but he'll have to fight off a resurgant Mark Webber who is finally challenging his team mate again after a slow start to the season after he struggled to acclimatise to the Pirelli tyres, he was also stung by the team orders at the end of the last Grand Prix, so you can't bet against him for at least a podium position next weekend.

Renault seem to have disappeared after a strong start to the season, Vitaly Petrov seems to have fallen back into 2010 mode after a strong start to the season. Nick Heidfeld has fared better recently and still features in the lower ends of the points, however a podium seems a long way away, a theory solidified as their side exhausts have had to be abandonded due to the propsed rules, however with the debate going on at the moment, this may not be the case after all.

Mercedes seem to have found pace recently, Rosberg is constintely in the midle of the points while Schumacher seems more like himself again, in more ways than one.......... But at his home grand prix, he will be keen to show that he still has it, along with a large number of German drivers, the most represented country on the grid, so many people will be keen to show that they are the best German on the grid.

Team lotus made it into Q2 again which is a major achievment for them and shows that they are getting closer to the midfield and their major goal of getting points before the end of the year so they can beat Virgin and Hispania.

This year we return to the Nurburgring as part of the deal is that the circuit alternates with Hockenheim, last time we were there was in 2009 where Mark Webber won his first grand prix in the Red Bull. In recent memory Nurburgring will be best remembered for the crazy race in 2007 where a heavy rain shower caused havoc at the start of the race and famously allowed Markus Winkelhock to lead the race in his Spyker, joining the elite of people who led a race in their first (and only race)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/nurburgring/
 
Not necesarily because a driver needs to have all four wheels off the track (as far as I know?) to be deemed as having "exceeded the limits of the track". When a wall (usually protected by a safety barried) constitutes the limits of the track the driver is deemed to have been squeezed, since he longer has the option of putting a wheel of the track's limits and so the driver doing the queezing is guilty unless he was clearly in front of the other car when the queezing took place.
 
Would Nick Heidfeld/ Di Resta be deemed a squeeze?

My only issue is that it seems like the rules can be easily worked around or talked out of, I still think rules should be in order to remove such types of scenarios, another issue was guys being driven of the road out of turn 1, to many gambles are being made, sure it was the easiest point to overtake, but the Webber on Hamilton followed immediately by a return by Hamilton on Webber which went into turn 1 was a classic case of racing for position as opposed to trying to run a car off.

EDIT: missed Brogan's post, sorry and agree the best place is the relevent forum. Can this be moved to that thread?
 
Once again Mark Webber looked thoroughly displeased with his end result, three races running now. Mark must be wondering what he has to do to win.
 
So in a similar circumstance only the advent of a wall is the determining factor? That is arbitrary in application and leads to more ifs and buts, universal application/general application is the way to go and that is for rules in general.

The fact that Hamilton and Button are team-mates somewhat adds to the debate as well.
 
Use Vettels car? :snigger: Seriously though, maybe if he could get a good start from pole and lead into turn 1 because three times this year he has had poor starts from pole and he has been 2nd/3rd on the first lap, if anything that isn't good for Webbers morale.
 
Use Vettels car? :snigger: Seriously though, maybe if he could get a good start from pole and lead into turn 1 because three times this year he has had poor starts from pole and he has been 2nd/3rd on the first lap, if anything that isn't good for Webbers morale.

It is a rather notorious hoodoo Mark seems to be carrying, Yesterday was a complete shocker off the line, but I think more than a start is needed, for some reason Mark Webber finds himself needing to pit at the wrong time.
 
Lap time chart of the top 5 drivers.

2011-german-gp-lap-times.png
 
Once again Mark Webber looked thoroughly displeased with his end result, three races running now. Mark must be wondering what he has to do to win.

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Go a little bit faster than Hamilton and Alonso?
 
Forcing someone off the track is against the rules, but I have yet to see a driver get penalised for it, Hamilton does it a lot, as does Schumacher, as does Webber, a few others did in this race too, and in other races. Everyone has done it some point in their F1 career.

So why is it a rule if no one gets punished by it? :unsure:

The only time I can think of someone getting punished by it, was Buemi in this race, even though he didn't really force Heidfeld off, he started braking took his line into the corner and then Heidfeld comes along with excess speed, 50/50, but I don't think he forced Heidfeld off, that might be a bad example but it was all I can think off.

Another thing, how come they didn't show a replay of the Heidfeld/di Resta incident? Didn't see it once from a proper view in that race, just some smoke in the background at the start...
 
Forcing someone off the track is against the rules, but I have yet to see a driver get penalised for it, Hamilton does it a lot, as does Schumacher, as does Webber, a few others did in this race too, and in other races. Everyone has done it some point in their F1 career.

So why is it a rule if no one gets punished by it? :unsure:

The only time I can think of someone getting punished by it, was Buemi in this race, even though he didn't really force Heidfeld off, he started braking took his line into the corner and then Heidfeld comes along with excess speed, 50/50, but I don't think he forced Heidfeld off, that might be a bad example but it was all I can think off.

Another thing, how come they didn't show a replay of the Heidfeld/di Resta incident? Didn't see it once from a proper view in that race, just some smoke in the background at the start...

Arbitrary application of rules, kind of like the 107% rule, Formula One powers to be have no backbone, the last was going against their previous decision to ban EBD's etc etc, if it is against the rules why revert even if it is the middle of the season.
 
Forcing someone off the track is against the rules, but I have yet to see a driver get penalised for it, Hamilton does it a lot, as does Schumacher, as does Webber, a few others did in this race too, and in other races. Everyone has done it some point in their F1 career.

So why is it a rule if no one gets punished by it? :unsure:

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If the driver in front is still ahead atthe time of squeezing, then he is perfectly entitled to take his line and it's up to the driver behind to avoid contact.
 
Back on topic ;)

I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's race, it was great to see 3 top cars all running together at the front, great bit of sportsmanship from Mark giving Fernando a lift back (great to see it wasn't punished too)
 
Back on topic ;)

I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's race, it was great to see 3 top cars all running together at the front, great bit of sportsmanship from Mark giving Fernando a lift back (great to see it wasn't punished too)

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I don't know whether it was made illegal a few years ago or or it was always been illegal, but tolerated before, but in any case you never realy see that anymore. It used to happen all the time and it'sstopped over the past 15 years or so. Last one I can think of Schumacher giviing Alesi a lift at the end of the 1995 canadian GP.L
 
Yeah... I don't remember too many specific examples but you hardly ever see it these days whereas it was common place up to the early ninetines, especially during the turbo era where cars would frequently run out of fuel in the last lap.
 
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