Grand Prix 2010 Bahrain Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion

Round 1 - Bahrain International Circuit, Sakhir

And so our long, long wait is over. Practice one is now complete and let's just say there are a few suprises in the mix.
Both HRT cars failed to set a time but at least they did get one car out on the the track to turn a wheel in anger.
It's no suprise to see all 6 of the new teams propping up the grid and I think it's a sight that we will be all too familiar with this season.

Here are the final P1 timings (un-official) (Source - Autosport)

Pos  Driver         Team                   Time              Laps

 1.  Sutil          Force India-Mercedes   1:56.583            18

 2.  Alonso         Ferrari                1:56.766  + 0.183   18

 3.  Kubica         Renault                1:57.041  + 0.458   19

 4.  Massa          Ferrari                1:57.055  + 0.472   19

 5.  Button         McLaren-Mercedes       1:57.068  + 0.485   19

 6.  Hamilton       McLaren-Mercedes       1:57.163  + 0.580   19

 7.  Liuzzi         Force India-Mercedes   1:57.194  + 0.611   19

 8.  Rosberg        Mercedes               1:57.199  + 0.616   15

 9.  Webber         Red Bull-Renault       1:57.255  + 0.672   17

10.  Schumacher     Mercedes               1:57.662  + 1.079   16

11.  Alguersuari    Toro Rosso-Ferrari     1:57.722  + 1.139   18

12.  Hulkenberg     Williams-Cosworth      1:57.894  + 1.311   20

13.  Vettel         Red Bull-Renault       1:57.943  + 1.360   17

14.  Buemi          Toro Rosso-Ferrari     1:58.399  + 1.816   13

15.  Barrichello    Williams-Cosworth      1:58.782  + 2.199   11

16.  Petrov         Renault                1:58.880  + 2.297   13

17.  de la Rosa     Sauber-Ferrari         2:00.250  + 3.667   18

18.  Kobayashi      Sauber-Ferrari         2:01.388  + 4.805   11

19.  Glock          Virgin-Cosworth        2:03.680  + 7.097    8

20.  Kovalainen     Lotus-Cosworth         2:03.848  + 7.265   21

21.  Trulli         Lotus-Cosworth         2:03.970  + 7.387   15

22.  di Grassi      Virgin-Cosworth                             2

23.  Senna          HRT-Cosworth                                3

24.  Chandhok       HRT-Cosworth

 

[fedupwithuserids]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I agree with BlackCountryBob.

It's a little too early to predict the outcome of the race and since the first couple of races are more of a 'shakedown', reliabilty will most likely decide.

 

[BlackCountryBob]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Parc ferme rule summary from the FIA, must have been another reason for the slower Q3 then as setup cannot change.

Teams must leave their cars here from within three and a half hours of the end of the qualifying on Saturday until five hours before the start of the formation lap on Sunday.

However, the cars are deemed to be under parc ferme conditions for a much longer period - from the time they first exit the pits during qualifying until the start of the formation lap immediately prior to the race.

Under these conditions, the work teams may carry out on their cars is limited to strictly-specified routine procedures, which can only be performed under the watchful eye of the FIA Technical Delegate and race scrutineers. Fuel may be added to the cars, tyres changed and brakes bled. Minor front wing adjustments are also allowed, but little else. These controls mean that teams cannot make significant alterations to the set-up of a car between qualifying and the race.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules ... ions/8685/

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Contrary to popular belief the wings are essentially used to balance the aerodynamic forces acting on the car and simply wacking on as much wing as possible is very seldom an option. The McLaren rear wing knee operated stall device reduces the level of downforce generated by the rear wing down the straight. But it doesn't compensate for the lack of downforce generated by the diffuser, front wing and other aero devices. The diffuser is said to generate the majority of the downforce on this generation of F1 cars.

The top ten cars qualify in parc ferme conditions and only a certain number of things can be changed prior to a race. One of those is of course to add race fuel which they do not have to qualify with... thank goodness.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Thanks Bob, useful information

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

As for McLaren, isn't this the exact same problem they had last year at places like Spa where the car was epic in the 1st and third sector, in the tight technical sector 2 it was about a second off the pace. Perhaps the car is just not suited to that kind of track, more a point a squirt package.

I'd have thought the opposite since the McLaren thrived last year in slow speed stuff as evidenced by wins in Hungary, Singapore and the epic qualifying performance in Abu Dhabi.

Their big problem last year was lack of performance through high speed turns.

 

[Galahad]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I wondered if they were hitching the ride height up for Q3 in preparation for the race, but evidently not.

Thanks snowy for the speed trap figures

It seems almost that the McLarens are too quick in a straight line. I know it's a sophisticated calculation, but a touch more wing angle front and rear (if possible) would seem sensible to me, given their sector 2 struggles. Of course with the new shark fin device, altering the rear wing angle during the race isn't going to be possible now, presumably?

Being that much faster than the rest at the end of the straights will put considerably more pressure on the brakes, too.

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Altering rear wing angle during the race is illegal, in fact I don't even think they are allowed to have those gurney flaps they used to peel off any more.

 

[Galahad]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Well, it's too late for them now anyway.

Somehow they need to find a better compromise I think. It could well help them look after the tyres better too.

As it is they're gambling on steaming up the inside into T1 and T4 on the first lap, then holding everyone else up, aren't they? It's going to be very frustrating for any faster car stuck behind a McLaren.

 

[genji]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Of course with the new shark fin device, altering the rear wing angle during the race isn't going to be possible now, presumably?

I didn't think that was allowed anyway, apart from removing gurney strips.

So is the best explanation that some drivers are simply not going hell for leather in Q3 in order to manage tyre performance for the race? If so, it's similar to making the call on how much fuel to run in Q3 last year. Drivers can really go for it (lower fuel) but perhaps be at a disadvantage in the race compared to those who post a more reserved time (higher fuel).

You could almost do a "hell-for-leather" corrected grid depending on who was slower in Q3 than Q2 and by how much.

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

10kph down the straight is pretty significant, so don't rule out the McLaren's picking off the opposition one lap at a time. Come to think of it there are three long straights on the Sakhir circuit, so Lewis could well be in the lead by the start of lap two whether he makes up any places into turn one or not.

 

[BlackCountryBob]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

But Lewis will be on the dirty side of the grid wont he so that could be really bad, the loss of traction for a fraction of a second of the dirty side will be magnified by the heavy cars wont it?

My only other thinking of why the McLaren is so slow in S2, it looked very bouncy, is it very stiff to deal with the weight which is causing understeer, I was surprised to see Jensen resorting to hacking at the wheel in turns 6-9.

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The bumps entering the new section of track were a problem for everyone except the Ferrari's this morning and clearly the Red Bull found a solution between there and qualifying. Jenson said he was having to lift off before braking and entering turn 6 so he could make it through without bottoming out. Clearly the sawing away at the wheel was a result of deciding not to lift off and dealing with the car being thrown off line.

 

[Galahad]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's interesting that following qualifying there's still so much that we don't know. Banning refuelling is going to change the races completely; there seem to be so many more variables in the mix.

Some of those cars do not look like they'll be nice to drive at all on full tanks. And we're still yet to see whether the Renault's supposed fuel efficiency will translate into an advantage in reality? I can't wait for tomorrow!

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I can't wait for tomorrow!

+1

 

[snowy]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

+another

My brother has had to be sedated!

 

[bogaTYR]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I can't wait for tomorrow!

i have worries GM. it could be me, and my sometimes clouded view of subjects, but i sensed an amount of carefulness today, i am not sure i want to see during quali. cos if this translates itself to the race then we could be in for a procession.

cos didn't really feel like a quali, did it? much more like a prolonged testing session. and i am pretty sure the race won't be too different actually. and i think we could be in for some serious surprises, hopefully all good but i am not sure at all.

 

[Galahad]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I understand a bit of trepidation boga - try not to worry too much!

If the teams and drivers are having to think about their cars' reliability again, and taking steps to ensure it, then that's long overdue in my view. That was how it was in the olden days after all - we know how Prost (and others) used to spend all their practice sessions working on race balance and largely ignored qualifying. Better that there should be more than one way to skin the cat.

 

[bogaTYR]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

ah, thats true GM

i kinda forgot all about that, being spoiled with some qualies that used to be more like mini races. you are right, even the qualifying is back to non refuelling days

lets hope for a fun one!

 

[genji]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This is just a bit of silliness. If you all tell me to bugger off then I'll p'raps not be silly again, but I'm new and you all seem a nice bunch so I thought I'd put it out there.

Following on from BlackCountryBob's suggestion that the slower lap times in Q3 might have been due to the drivers preserving their tyres, this is what I done did.

Taking the gap between a driver and Vettel (and if Vettel hadn't been top in both sessions I'd have no reference point) in Q3 and subtracting it from that driver's gap to Vettel in Q2 gives us a loose idea of how much they backed off in Q3 (loose because it takes no account of mistakes, traffic, tyre-choice or fuel - i.e. an efficient engine might require less fuel for three laps than a less efficient engine) in comparison with how much Vettel backed off. Subtracting that number from their actual Q3 times I got:

Vettel - 1:54.101
Alonso - 1:54.390
Webber - 1:54.536
Massa - 1:54.549
Rosberg - 1:54.900
Hamilton - 1:54.925
Kubica - 1:55.181
Sutil - 1:55.214
Schumacher - 1:55.323
Button - 1:55.386

Sutil's an anomaly because he was on primes and perhaps didn't back off at all. Massa's also a bit weird because he went faster in Q3 than he did in Q2 and perhaps his tyres are knackered. For the others it imagines that those who appeared to back off more than Vettel did might have been higher up the grid if they had backed off only as much as Vettel.

It's an idle dalliance, but I think it's as valid as 'correcting' the grid according to fuel weights without taking engine efficiency and driver styles into consideration, and that was all the rage last year.

If there's a serious point at all it's that, despite the fanfare with which low-fuel qualifying was greeted (including Jonathan Legard's race introduction today), we're seeing a true performance comparison in Q3 this year about as faithfully as we did year.

 

[Brogan]

Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

This is just a bit of silliness. If you all tell me to bugger off then I'll p'raps not be silly again

I wouldn't worry, we like our stat's and data on this site, even if it is all a bit hypothetical.

I think it will be interesting to see if the trend continues in future races, or if it's just an anomoly due to it being the first race under the new rules, track temperatures, etc.