Time For McLaren To Employ Team Orders "Soon"?

[Galahad]

Hamilton got into fuel trouble at Silverstone because he used more than they had anticipated making his way through the field in the early laps. Button didn't need to do this as he'd qualified more normally. The quotes are there if you care to look.

Slower driver in qualifying doesn't mean slower driver in the race, and even then slower driver in the race doesn't equate to fewer championship points. At various points both last season and this, Button has led Hamilton in the standings.

Only one of them can be world champion? In their dreams. Neither can. Not in this universe and probably not in Ray's either.

 

[Josh]

So, Button would have been in fuel save mode for how long, then?

I do not know, but it would be logical to assume he would have had to save less fuel, as he is the less agressive driver of the two.

Button was legitimately ahead of Hamilton/Alonso/Webber at Germany? Really?

No, sorry, I got the positions mixed up on that one

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Hamilton got into fuel trouble at Silverstone because he used more than they had anticipated making his way through the field in the early laps. Button didn't need to do this as he'd qualified more normally. The quotes are there if you care to look.

The quotes are what, precisely?

McLaren made a bet on weather conditions being wetter for longer. That was the error, not Hamilton being "too fast". Heck, it wasn't even a real error, per se'. It was a "bet". The bet was made to off-set/minimize their OTEBD ban disadvantage.

Hamilton was doing what he was supposed to be doing: Battling Alonso's Ferrari and the Red Bulls for victory. That's his job. That's what he's built to do. That's what they pay him to do.

Hamilton was doing his job at Silverstone and he was the superior McLaren driver on the day.

 

[Josh]

The quotes are what, precisely?

McLaren made a bet on weather conditions being wetter for longer. That was the error, not Hamilton being "too fast". Heck, it wasn't even a real error, per se'. It was a "bet". The bet was made to off-set/minimize their OTEBD ban disadvantage.

This is what Martin Whitmarsh had to say about Lewis' race, on formula1.com:

Lewis, too, delivered a very strong performance. We’d expected him to encounter more traffic in the first part of the race than he actually did - and, as a result, he used more fuel early on than we’d anticipated he would. That being the case, we had to ask him to drive with fuel conservation in mind in the final laps - which meant that he was forced to slow his pace and thereby allow Mark to pass and let Felipe catch up.

Hamilton was doing what he was supposed to be doing: Battling Alonso's Ferrari and the Red Bulls for victory. That's his job. That's what he's built to do. That's what they pay him to do.

Hamilton was doing his job at Silverstone and he was the superior McLaren driver on the day.

How could Jenson be ahead of Hamilton then at the time of his second pit stop, if Hamilton was the superior McLaren driver?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

How could Jenson be ahead of Hamilton then at the time of his second pit stop, if Hamilton was the superior McLaren driver?

How? Forgive me for being off the mark, Josh, but wasn't Hamilton fighting it out with Alonso (the eventual race winner) and Vettel and Webber at the front?

Where was Button while Hamilton was dicing it out at the front?

 

[Josh]

How? Forgive me for being off the mark, Josh, but wasn't Hamilton fighting it out with Alonso (the eventual race winner) and Vettel and Webber at the front?

Where was Button while Hamilton was dicing it out at the front?

I thought Jenson was ahead of Lewis? Is my memory really that bad?
I can't view the race on the iPlayer so I can't check. I'm beginning to doubt now, though. If it's true what you say then forgive me as I really thought Button was ahead

 

[Brogan]

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2011/britain/Pages/lap_chart.aspx

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I thought Jenson was ahead of Lewis? Is my memory really that bad?
I can't view the race on the iPlayer so I can't check. I'm beginning to doubt now, though. If it's true what you say then forgive me as I really thought Button was ahead

You might have been thinking about Silverstone. Jenson qualified ahead of Lewis and stayed ahead of Lewis for 3 minutes or so

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I thought Jenson was ahead of Lewis? Is my memory really that bad?
I can't view the race on the iPlayer so I can't check. I'm beginning to doubt now, though. If it's true what you say then forgive me as I really thought Button was ahead

Button was never ahead of Hamilton after being passed by him on lap two, except when Lewis pitted first for tyres. Jenson was closing on Massa though before his retirement, so he may well have caught him up before the end of the race. Whether he would have been able to get past, given the difficulty that Vettel had doing that at the Nurburgring, or whether he himself might have had to start saving fuel later in the race, is another matter. No-one can say for sure, and it's history now anyway.

 

[Josh]

My bad guys, I'm not sure how I managed to get things so mixed up

 

[Cookinflatsix]

At Silverstone Lewis was fueled one kilo less than Button. If Button had stayed on the field and had driven fast enough to catch and pass Massa, who is a stout defender, then the chances are high that Button would have had to go into fuel saving as well at some point

 

[Galahad]

At Silverstone, by the time of the fateful pit stop, Button was already 6s clear of Massa - and less than 4s behind Hamilton. Webber was between the McLarens.

Hamilton and Webber's pitstops dropped them behind the yet-to-stop Massa, and cost them time. Button was on course to exit right in the middle of that fight. He might have got ahead, he might not, but with tyres two laps younger than Hamilton's, and a lap younger than Webber's, he would certainly have had a shot at 3rd, and a shot at the ailing Vettel for 2nd further down the road.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

If he didnt have to fuel save

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I thought Jenson was ahead of Lewis? Is my memory really that bad? If it's true what you say then forgive me...

Josh, don't worry about it, my friend.

You saw the following:

Lewis was in 2nd...Jenson was in 5th ...BEFORE their third pit stops.

So when Vettel (lap 36), Hamilton (lap 37), Webber (lap 38) made their stops, Button went into 2nd place - behind Alonso. Alonso and Button then stopped on lap 39.

Hope that clarifies why you saw Button ahead of Hamilton just before Button went in for his last stop.

Cheers, mate.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I seem to remember from comments afterwards that as Button went into the pits he and/or his engineers thought he could get out ahead of Webber. It certainly looked that way to me at the time, watching from Vale.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

At Silverstone, by the time of the fateful pit stop, Button was already 6s clear of Massa - and less than 4s behind Hamilton. Webber was between the McLarens.

Hamilton and Webber's pitstops dropped them behind the yet-to-stop Massa, and cost them time. Button was on course to exit right in the middle of that fight. He might have got ahead, he might not...

How much more fuel did Jenson have in relation to Lewis?

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Back on topic; regardless of what has gone before,

Hamilton is four [edit: three - thanks Bro] and a bit wins behind Vettel with eight races left.
Button is exactly one win behind Hamilton.

No need for team orders just yet.

 

[Brogan]

Three and a bit.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I seem to remember from comments afterwards that as Button went into the pits he and/or his engineers thought he could get out ahead of Webber.

Before the third set of pitstops (around laps 36 (for Vettel), 37 (for Hamilton) and 38 (for Webber) and then on 39 (for Alonso/Button), Webber was in 4th place behind Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel.

So, before those stops, Hamilton was ahead of Webber.

Again, how much more fuel did Button have in relation to Hamilton.

Moot anyway because Button didn't get away well and was over-taken by Hamilton very early in the race.

 

[Galahad]

Hang on, Ray, you said this:

Where was Button while Hamilton was dicing it out at the front?

which was wrong, n'est pas? For he was dicing it out at the front too.