Time For McLaren To Employ Team Orders "Soon"?

[Bus Stop Chicane]

no-FIAt you are deluded if you think McLaren have never employed team orders. They have been one of the worst teams for it!

Funny how this hasn't been that bad since Ron Dennis left.

 

[teabagyokel]

Sebastian Vettel will win the World Championship. McLaren have 0 drivers capable of winning it. So sod it, whats the point.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

That may be true but they have been one of the few teams running near the front in the last decade, naturally the other teams won't have a need to employ team orders. If McLaren employed team orders in 2007 (especially towards the latter of the season) do you think Alonso (who knew he almost certainly wouldn't be at McLaren next year) would obey them? We can't just assume TO were used.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

we can only acknowledge the facts.

Yes. The known 'facts'...

 

[Galahad]

Weren't Ferrari guilty of humiliating and demotivating Massa around this time last season when implementing team orders? With Button closer to his team-mate than Felipe was, and neither remotely likely to win the thing, you'd simply piss Jenson off with no net benefit resulting.

 

[Josh]

Unless the team orders consist of Jenson being ordered to crash into Vettel, Webber, Alonso and to let Lewis win, McLaren aren't going to win either championship.

Just let them race, I say

 

[The Pits]

The way i see it, Lewis usually finishes ahead of Jenson, Jenson is a way back due to 2 non finishes, albeit only medium finishes were likely.

Lewis best chance for the wdc is for Jenson to take points off vettel, and hopefully the ferraris. This would also push the team in the wcc, and despite the positions, a second place is not certain, nor is a win totally out of the equation.

So, my gore would be maintain the status quo, and trust Jenson to do the right thing when the time comes, which I hope he would do.

 

[Fenderman]

McLaren are in the very fortunate position of never having to make that decision. Jenson answered that question very early in his "McLaren career" in an interview on the Beeb (sorry I can't recall the exact prog', think it was on Radio 5Live) when he talked about his move to "Lewis's" team. I remember being very impressed by his stance which was then (and I've seen nor heard anything to suggest that it has changed) that if, mathematically, the championship was over for him he would make the decision and would support Lewis if he was, mathematically, still in with a shout. Unsaid but, logically, we can assume that if neither he nor Lewis remained in contention then it would be business as usual on the track.

Button and Hamilton detractors can speculate otherwise until Hell freezes over but in an uncertain world I am confident that therein lie the facts. Until such time as one upsets the other in a seriously big way it aint gonna change.

 

[Slyboogy]

I agree with Coulthard and Montoya but what team orders was there in 2007? Heikki Kovalainen hasn't confirmed there were any team orders in 2008. But I will agree that Hamilton passed him quickly at both Silverstone and Hockenheim (although Silverstone didn't really matter...).

Don't want to go off-topic here or cause an argument but I feel the need to say this.

About Kovaleinen, Germany 2008 springs to mind, Hamilton catching Kovaleinen, he gets near him, then next shot you see is Ron Dennis say the words "Hamilton is faster than you", the shot then changes to on track, and you see Kovaleinen almost come to a stop in the chicane leaving a big gap and Hamilton going through, similar situation to the Ferrari one although it wasn't for the lead...that is why I think Ferrari are hard done by with all the criticism in 2010, yes it shouldn't have been done, - McLaren did this at the same stage of the championship with a similar deificet from Hamilton compared to Alonso and Massa -

They(Ferrari) got blatantly accused by other teams that have done the same, that is why I feel for them. And I was quite disgusted on how they got treated by most folk, and I am not even a Ferrari fan.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

... similar situation to the Ferrari one although it wasn't for the lead...that is why I think Ferrari are hard done by with all the criticism in 2010, yes it shouldn't have been done, - McLaren did this at the same stage of the championship with a similar deificet from Hamilton compared to Alonso and Massa ...

I think the 'disgust' was at Massa being asked to give up a win while in the lead (when both Ferraris were 1-2) with Vettel no threat in 3rd!

I think the 'disgust' was Massa being told to give up a victory one year after nearly being killed in a Ferrari!

Kovy had absolutely no hope of winning the race. In fact only Hamilton had any hope of winning the Grand Prix for McLaren. McLaren's only hope of victory was for Kovy not to hold up a much much faster Hamilton.

Therein lies the difference I think. Kovy was simply not fast enough or in a position to win that Grand Prix for McLaren.

Honestly, I don't think the disgust would have been there had there been one or two cars ahead of Massa with Alonso being significantly faster and being the only Ferrari driver capable of beating another team's car out in the lead for the Grand Prix win.

GP wins are vital for marketing reasons, etc. Ferrari had the victory covered off in 2010...Kovy certainly didn't have a victory in his pocket that race in 2008. Not even close.

 

[Slyboogy]

Like I said...I know it wasn't handled perfectly and as a Massa supporter I was disgusted myself.

But the way Ferrari where treated it was just as horrible maybe even worse, this sort of thing didn't happen when Coulthard gave Hakkinen in 1998 in the first race.

That's my view, and it won't change, that's the last I am going to say on that matter in this thread.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

... as a Massa supporter I was disgusted myself.

But the way Ferrari where treated it was just as horrible maybe even worse, this sort of thing didn't happen when Coulthard gave Hakkinen in 1998 in the first race.

That's my view, and it won't change, that's the last I am going to say on that matter in this thread.

I would never want you to change your view, my friend. It's a valid view. Have a nice evening, Sly!

 

[Fenderman]

As mentioned by posters in the earlier thread (http://cliptheapex.com/threads/are-...r-wdc-efforts-by-not-backing-a-number-1.2904/) team orders were not illegal at that time (1998 that is). It was following the infamous Austrian GP 2002 - Barrichello/Schumacher incident that the FIA attempted to impose the team orders ban. It is interesting that reaction to the German GP - Alonso/Massa incident led to the removal of the ban yet a great many people, including myself, felt that Felipe was the victim of a major injustice, again as many have said already, on the anniversary of his near career ending accident in Hungary. Would it not be a really nice, if ironic, turn of events if Fernando helped Felipe to lift the gold next weekend?

 

[Slyboogy]

As mentioned by posters in the earlier thread (http://cliptheapex.com/threads/are-...r-wdc-efforts-by-not-backing-a-number-1.2904/) team orders were not illegal at that time.

Was illegal in 2008.

Would it not be a really nice, if ironic, turn of events if Fernando helped Felipe to lift the gold next weekend?

Would love that

But it ain't gonna happen

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Would it not be a really nice, if ironic, turn of events if Fernando helped Felipe to lift the gold next weekend?

Only in a Fairy Tale...Or if Alonso was mathematically out of it.

Here, look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/14270107.stm

In fact, just the opposite is likely to occur given what Alonso is saying in the link. I mean it's gotten to the point where Alonso is cheering on McLaren now!

My Enemy's Enemy Is My Friend ...

Vettel's the Enemy and McLaren is Nando's new Friend! hehe!

 

[FB]

Just to confirm (sort of) what I said earlier about Button:

While McLaren's Lewis Hamilton romped to victory in Germany, his team-mate Jenson Button suffered another retirement and then conceded his title chances are over. "As for the championship, I don't think we're fighting for that any more, so I'm just going to go out there and do the best at every race I'm in," he said. "My intention now is to be back on the podium for my 200th grand prix [in Budapest]."

 

[Irishgreen]

All teams can employ whatever team orders they want.It's over. SV WDC 2011 FACT.

 

[Fenderman]

I can't believe anyone felt the need to tell me it was fairy tale. Obviously not familiar or interested in my posts. Not that I mind as there is so much of interest on this site that one cannot be expected to read everything, or for that matter to get "a read" on everyone.

If I were to reply to my own post it would have been something like this:

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I can't believe anyone felt the need to tell me it was fairy tale. Obviously not familiar or interested in my posts.

Well, i'm always interested in everyone's post. You can never discount a poster. There's alwasys some golden nugget or two to be had from time to time! Cheers.

 

[Slyboogy]