Ticket's for the band wagon now on sale !!!

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Since the flag fell on this weekends Bahrain GP it seems like every newspaper, online and tv report have been quick to jump on the F1 bashing band wagon. The principle reason of course is that it was the press that stoked the fires in the first place with their "potentially the best sesaon ever" tag lines. Of course the papers couldn't be wrong so it must be the fault of F1.

Here's a classic example printed in todays times and in the times online:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/giles_smith/article7062874.ece

Now I admit to not seeing the start of the race coverage (I was still on my way to the pub) but I must have watched from around 30 minutes before the offf until the closing credits. Did I miss Eddie Irvine or has the writer of the article made a mistake? If so it's a pretty big one, To confuse Eddie Jordan with Eddie Irvine? and then it would seem at one point to confuse David Coulthard with Eddie Irvine !!!!

In prepepration for writing this I took a look around the net to see what some of the foreign press were saying and it's just as bad. In Bild which is Germanys largest daily they ask is F1 becoming Formula Yawn and what can be done to prevent it. One great quote claims that when F1 had in race re-fueilling races were full of exciting stratagies !!! Has one person at that paper ever sat through a Eurpean GP at Valencia?

Half the problem of the lack of "Show" is that it dosn't give the press very much to write about. With two British world champions in a British team that should make good copy however not if the reigning world champion cruises to a lacklustre 7th while neither driver were on the pace of the Ferrari's. Meanwhile the other big story of the weekend being the return of Schumacher peatered out into mild dissapointment as well.

Yes we all know there are faults with F1 and that it has been that way for some time but with the press in hysterics sponsors will look around nervously (especiallly in the current financial climate) and wonder if they are putting their money in the right places. This in turn makes team managers start to propose daft ideas like mandatory 2 pits stops and the whole thing goes down and round again.

Can you believe the only person calling for calm at the moment is Bernie Ecclestone but he's got a point.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I agree that it is too soon to be screaming for changes. It is only one race and the teams are still getting used to the new rules, plus the new teams are struggling to survive as well as be competitive.

The idea of mandatory two pit stops being bandied about is horrible. There should be NO mandated pit stops or tyre changes. That way, Bridgestone could design a tyre capable of lasting full race distance and another which is not likely to last but is quicker. By limiting the number of air guns allowed during a pit stop to two, ensuring longer stops to change tyres, strategy would once again come into play.

For Bernie to be calling for calm is a bit rich. IMHO part of the blame for F1 problems this year rests with his insistence that there be no customer cars and every team must have 2 cars. This makes privateers such as Rob Walker and Lord Hesketh from years past an impossibility. Privateers always provided great entertainment value with the David vs Goliath aspects, and they frequently proved adept at spotting new talent.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Unfortunately for every one, Albert Park isn't exactly conducive to overtaking or exciting racing either... So in two weeks time the knives that are already out are likely to get stuck in and drawing blood!

I recommend the next race be rigged, with the top eight cars swapping places continuously lap after lap until they resort themselves into the order they qualified in on the penultimate and last lap. :embarrassed:
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
snowy said:
Unfortunately for every one, Albert Park isn't exactly conducive to overtaking or exciting racing either...
I dunno, I seem to remember some good Australian GPs.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Albert Park has a lower average number of passes than Sakhir over the last 7 years so there's really going to be some wailing and gnashing of teeth in 10 days time...
 
This is shocking!! The newspapers have nothing constructive to say?? thay sound as shocked and appalled as they were at MPs claiming expenses?? This is supposed t be racing but there wasnt any overtaking !!!? Racing but not racing???!!!!! Basically FRAUD!!!!!
Giles Smith, who is so intelligent and professional that he is criticising Eddie Irvines performance in a TV programme position that he has NEVER occupied!!!???
Giles Smith, who is so intelligent and professional and knows sooooooooooo much about F1 yet cannot recognise David Coulthard while condemning him in the national press!!!!!!!!!???

This is the type of opinionated tripe written by idiots like this who know nothing but can criticise everything. "All is bad, nothing is good, i am great!!" What a tosser, how did he ever get Sports Columnist of the year???
 
Brogan, i hear wht you are saying about Alber Park; but thew masses of playstation generation dont care about the number of passes, its the crashes and a few leadership changes and they could very well be satisfied. Albert Park always seems to have a bit of carbon crushing.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Couldn't agree more Warfield.

I actually voted on the poll on the home page that I thought the Bahrain GP was more exciting for not having refuelling.
Simply because I had no idea when the drivers were going to pit or how the tyres would hold up, etc.

Looks like I'm in a minority :D
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
WarfieldF1 said:
Brogan, i hear wht you are saying about Alber Park; but thew masses of playstation generation dont care about the number of passes, its the crashes and a few leadership changes and they could very well be satisfied. Albert Park always seems to have a bit of carbon crushing.
OK, I'm a bona fide member of the PlayStation generation, and I would say if there were 2 overtakes and an uncertain result, that is better than 25 overtakes, all of them on Heikki Kovalainen.

As for Giles Smith, in between insulting Jake Humphrey, Micheal Schumacher and bizzarely being unable to distinguish Eddie Irvine from David Coulthard, seems not to get it.

“If we’re in the race long enough to be lapped, that’s a good sign,” said Bruno Senna of HRT, which doesn’t stand for “hormone replacement therapy” but maybe should.
Congratulations for not doing the research, mate, but did the coverage not stretch to giving you an idea of the situation of Hispania. Everyone has to start somewhere, mate, and I'm sure F1's decision to give Hispania a place will not prove as disastarous as the idea to give you a job on a local newsdesk somewhere.

Besides, at the circuit, Humphrey is nearly always in the guardianship of Irvine and Eddie Jordan, who themselves could pass for sports broadcasting’s first father-and-son punditry duo.
a) What is the point of this sentence?
b) COULTHARD! Thats why they call him DC!
c) Has Jake Humphrey ever acted quite as immaturely as Eddie Jordan?

At some point a Sauber trickled past another Sauber. That was about it.
Did you actually watch the race? Sutil, Hulkenburg and Kubica will be delighted you bothered to notice their recoveries!

But gone is the chance of witnessing a mechanic getting it slightly wrong, nozzle-wise, and putting his flame-retardant boiler suit through the ultimate test.
I get you, a sport is only worth watching if there's a chance someone will be set on fire. I wondered why the Inter fans were throwing flares on the pitch at the San Siro in 2005, that'll be it then. Because if Andriy Shevchenko's not on fire its not a proper football match.

If each car were allowed to make strategic use of a smoke bomb, we’d see some sport worth the name. The smoke could be in team colours. Bernie?
Frighteningly, he's probably considering it!
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
[colour=red:1plkt7fu]Warning! Long post coming up. Bother, or don't bother![/colour:1plkt7fu]

WarfieldF1 said:
Brogan, i hear wht you are saying about Alber Park; but thew masses of playstation generation dont care about the number of passes, its the crashes and a few leadership changes and they could very well be satisfied. Albert Park always seems to have a bit of carbon crushing.
I'm sure there are many "classic" GP's that are in the - ahem - pre PlayStation generation's minds that are little more than a couple of crashes and a few leadership changes.

It's slightly condescending to say that the 'PlayStation generation' doesn't appreciate good racing. Hey, I'm part of the PlayStation generation, and yet, I know about some of the past eras of racing. Thanks to the marvels of the internet, I can be introduced to incredible racing that was happening before I was even born - the Dijon battle of '79, for example, or the Prost v. Jones battle at Hockenheim. That is a truly incredible thing, that I can genuinely see these slices of racing action for the first time and experience them just as others did.

Just because I am from the 'PlayStation generation' doesn't mean I masturbate over pileups into turn 1, neither does it mean that a couple of lead changes completes a race for me.

Yet to say either of these things aren't part of the worship of racing is wrong. Crashes can be spectacular, and provided the driver walks away, incredible testaments to the standard of modern cars. Likewise lead changes can be appreciated, since it is blindingly obvious to anyone who has watched racing over the last x amount of years that there are a disappointingly small number of wheel-to-wheel battles. So when someone grabs the lead in whichever way, it can prove to be exciting - see the first and final laps of Spa 2008, for example, in a race that was largely mediocre. And for many, Spa '08 is memorable. The race may not have been a classic, per se, but people relatively new to F1 - like myself - will still be talking about it for years to come, both on the excitement felt and the controversy surrounding it. In themselves events like that become semi-classics as they live long in the memory ; plenty of other races from past years have had the same influence on the F1 fan's psyche, yet watching the entire race may prove to be just like Spa '08, mostly mediocre with flashes of drama.




- Back on topic, it is too early to call for changes, and even more ludicrous to suggest a mandatory 2 stop race. Over the past few years we've had more and more regulations, more and more restrictions, and less options for both teams and drivers.

I do agree on the principle that something must be done : whether it affects the so-called 'purity' of F1 is bordering on irrelevant, unfortunately, in a modern world that demands audience appreciation, almost beyond anything else.

If F1 cannot provide a true racing 'spectacle' - i.e, wheel-to-wheel racing - then it suffers as a consequence. It is becoming easier and easier for audiences to consume their TV or media to suit their needs. Eventually this will get to the point where people can watch alternative - and far more eventful - sports whenever they want, however they want. If they want crashes and pileups, they can get it. If they want to watch an obscure sport from Kazakhstan, they can watch it.

'Spectacle' or 'show' does not come in further pitstops, people do not tune in to see cars go down a pit lane every 20 laps. They come in hope of seeing something breathtaking, something dramatic, some emotion, some fundamental humanity, which has been lost from the sport for such a long time. The drivers are increasingly becoming corporate puppets, but you can hardly blame them. These people are still human ; they still have the emotions and the fires that people so fondly remember from eras ago. They are just hidden.

One of the simplest things they can do to help the idea of 'spectacle' or 'show' can be to stop the needless, restrictive rules on drivers. They can't take their helmets off even after the chequered flag, they're not supposed to loosen the belts, there's a barrier between the drivers and the mechanics when they park the car after the race, they can't talk out of line about another driver, it seems they can't do much. There is both a physical and an invisible barrier between the drivers and the fans which needs to be got rid of.

My 2 cents. :goodday:
 
Also part of the problem is that F1 drivers are now part of the big commercial machine, their actions, even down to what they say to the press is 'controlled'. If you watch a driver being interviewed their answers are always measured and follow their employers/sponsers view, they are also less contoversial and too PC.

F1 does not really have any characters, remember the tiffs of the late eighties both on and off the track, usually involving Senna. In those days a driver would actually state his opinion, however contraversial.

Excitement existed off track as well as on.

Now drivers are cautious what they say and what they do on track - for fear of penalties.

In Bahrain I also enjoyed not knowing when the cars where going to pit.

in recent years I disliked knowing that such & such a car was fueled to lap14 while car Z was fuelled to lap 15 and grid corrected the car 3rd on the grid should actually be 1st. YAWN !! - why bother watching I may as well watch News at 10 for the results.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
I wondered why the Inter fans were throwing flares on the pitch at the San Siro in 2005, that'll be it then. Because if Andriy Shevchenko's not on fire its not a proper football match.
ROFL ROFL ROFL

One of the simplest things they can do to help the idea of 'spectacle' or 'show' can be to stop the needless, restrictive rules on drivers. They can't take their helmets off even after the chequered flag, they're not supposed to loosen the belts, there's a barrier between the drivers and the mechanics when they park the car after the race, they can't talk out of line about another driver, it seems they can't do much. There is both a physical and an invisible barrier between the drivers and the fans which needs to be got rid of.
That is a very valid point. The modern proffesional F1 driver is totally different from the gung-ho heroes of yesterday.
 

Boyle

Race Winner
Contributor
teabagyokel said:
But gone is the chance of witnessing a mechanic getting it slightly wrong, nozzle-wise, and putting his flame-retardant boiler suit through the ultimate test.
I get you, a sport is only worth watching if there's a chance someone will be set on fire. I wondered why the Inter fans were throwing flares on the pitch at the San Siro in 2005, that'll be it then. Because if Andriy Shevchenko's not on fire its not a proper football match.

Or does it take Ramsey's broken leg to spice things up a bit?! Seriously, some people live on a different planet!

It's not just F1 that struggles with being labelled boring. All sports struggle. There are many football games that I will watch and there are a select few that are any good. But there's more to a game of football than spectacular goals or end to end action. There's the tactics, the little nuances that people don't observe. We watch sport in expectation of being entertained but entertainment comes in different shapes and forms.

Think of how many 'big' games you watch that turn out to be a disappointment. Defence is just as much part of the game as attack. Chelsea-Man United games are always a let down in terms of attacking play but you have to appreciate their defensive skills. Look at the Scotland-England game at the weekend in rugby - to watch was a nightmare! I didn't see the knives out for that game But those who appreciate rugby understand the detail of the game and realise that you have to take the bad as well as the good.

We watch sport in anticipation of classic moments, for those moments of genius and spectacular pieces of action. When these moments happen, they are all the more memorable for their rarity.
 

genji

Banned
Boyle99 said:
...you have to appreciate their defensive skills.
Which accounts for a lot of what was going on on Sunday with new rules on a tricky circuit in the first race of a season laden with expectation. It will develop.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Excellent comments by all and a very valid point about other sports Boyle99.

How many football matches end 0-0 and yet you don't hear the commentators proclaiming the death of football and suggesting the introduction of new rules to improve the quantity of goals.
Well, apart from when the US hosted the Olympics one year and wanted to increase the size of the goals...
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
Boyle99 said:
Or does it take Ramsey's broken leg to spice things up a bit?! Seriously, some people live on a different planet!

It's not just F1 that struggles with being labelled boring. All sports struggle. There are many football games that I will watch and there are a select few that are any good. But there's more to a game of football than spectacular goals or end to end action. There's the tactics, the little nuances that people don't observe. We watch sport in expectation of being entertained but entertainment comes in different shapes and forms.

Think of how many 'big' games you watch that turn out to be a disappointment. Defence is just as much part of the game as attack. Chelsea-Man United games are always a let down in terms of attacking play but you have to appreciate their defensive skills. Look at the Scotland-England game at the weekend in rugby - to watch was a nightmare! I didn't see the knives out for that game But those who appreciate rugby understand the detail of the game and realise that you have to take the bad as well as the good.

We watch sport in anticipation of classic moments, for those moments of genius and spectacular pieces of action. When these moments happen, they are all the more memorable for their rarity.
Some fair points there, but you have to remember there are roughly 50-60 games per season for some Premier League teams, and "only" 19 races in F1 - around about 7 or 8 of which we can practically guarantee will be dull, not including Korea (cough) or Monaco (because it's the 'jewel in the crown', plus, I never get bored of those cars on those streets).

That leaves you with about 11-12 races to entertain fans, we have already had 1 race where the general consensus was that it was dull, that leaves us with 10-11. If Suzuka stays dry, it's likely it will be quite dull, despite being a brilliant track (see 2009!), Hockenheim is sort of workmanlike, Silverstone is usually half brilliant, half dull, and Sepang is hardly riveting.

Really, there are only a few races that everyone genuinely looks forward to, Montreal, Spa, Monza and best of all - Interlagos.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Some light at the end of the tunnel:

Ecclestone told Bild:
"We cannot change the rules,"

"It would take far too long and it is too difficult. F1 is now a democracy and all the teams voted for these rules, so now they must also deal with them," he added.
So we just might a chance to see these rules play out, give people time to come to their senses and she that with or without refuelling things are in actual fact normal.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
snowy said:
So we just might a chance to see these rules play out, give people time to come to their senses and she that with or without refuelling things are in actual fact normal.
I think anyone who thought that banning refuelling was going to bring any benefit other than the teams not having to cart expensive rigs around was somewhat naive. Everybody knows the lack of overtaking is down to a dependency on aero grip rather than mechanical and until this is fixed, it's going to remain an issue.
 
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