Ticket's for the band wagon now on sale !!!

[snowy]

It's taken almost a two weeks but finally someone in F1 has had the guts to point the finger at the real culprit in the lack of overtaking debate and not refuelling.

Jenson Button is asking the decision makers to listen to the drivers for a change:

"The drivers have a good understanding of what the car is doing on the circuit and what the possibilities are of improving the car," he said.

"We know what we need to overtake and the thing is this season we have taken away a lot of mechanical grip with going to a narrow front tyre. At the same time we have more downforce on the car than we had last year.

"The problem is when you come up behind someone, you lose that downforce and you don't have the mechanical grip you had last year to follow.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/60511 ... he-Drivers

Last years front tyres and wider rears, any one?

 

[Muddytalker]

It's taken almost a two weeks but finally someone in F1 has had the guts to point the finger at the real culprit in the lack of overtaking debate and not refuelling.

Jenson Button is asking the decision makers to listen to the drivers for a change:

"The drivers have a good understanding of what the car is doing on the circuit and what the possibilities are of improving the car," he said.

"We know what we need to overtake and the thing is this season we have taken away a lot of mechanical grip with going to a narrow front tyre. At the same time we have more downforce on the car than we had last year.

"The problem is when you come up behind someone, you lose that downforce and you don't have the mechanical grip you had last year to follow.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/60511 ... he-Drivers

Last years front tyres and wider rears, any one?

Totally agree, and if I remember rightly, Bridgestone didn't want to do it, as increasing the rears was going to cost more. Tail-wagging-dog scenario, once again.

 

[snowy]

Ruben's agrees with Jenson:

Rubens Barrichello reckons F1 made a mistake switching to smaller front tyres as that decision, he believes, is partly to blame for a lack of overtaking.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6052955/Rubens-Smaller-front-tyres-to-blame

The BBC are still insisting on misquoting Jenson and now they have resorted to misquoting Lewis as well! Saying they have blamed the new rules and ban on refuelling for the lack of overtaking. Oddly enough it is in an article where Michael Schumacher makes his views clear after being stupifyingly quoted out of context after the Bahrain GP!

Michael Schumacher defends F1 spectacle
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8584794.stm


SCHUMACHER QUESTIONS RULE CHANGES!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8567043.stm

 

[FB]

Can I make an alternative proposal to making the tyres bigger, break off all the stupid little flaps that have sudddenly sprouted all over the front wing. Wasn't the point of the new regulations to make the cars less dependant on aero grip? All the designers have done is transfer all the bits and bobs they used to attach around the car onto the front wing detail.

Very simply the FIA needs to enforce it's own rules better - I'll not mention double diffusers, damn I just did...

 

[snowy]

You are not alone...

Where has the simplicity of the front wing gone?

http://www.f1technical.net/development/287

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Can I make an alternative proposal to making the tyres bigger, break off all the stupid little flaps that have sudddenly sprouted all over the front wing. Wasn't the point of the new regulations to make the cars less dependant on aero grip? All the designers have done is transfer all the bits and bobs they used to attach around the car onto the front wing detail.

Very simply the FIA needs to enforce it's own rules better - I'll not mention double diffusers, damn I just did...

The problem with that is we as fans have become our worst own enemy.

One Week we will all talk about how F1 is so damn restrictive you can't do nothing with the rules, there's no innovation in F1, F1 is now a spec formula.

Then the next week its:

Well this should be banned we should all move bits and bobs from this part of the car, Cars should look cleaner, Theres got to be no areo parts from this part of the car to that part of the car, That shouldn't be allowed on the front wing, This should be banned from the rear wing and so-on.

The FIA are geared to run to the least offensive option, They will never get a backbone and say to the fans sorry your wrong on this one, THIs needs to be done. And with us F1 fans how we are, the FIA are never going to get a clear view and even going to get criticized for whatever they do.

 

[Muddytalker]

You can limit without becoming a spec formula though - The front wings, for example, could be limited thus (dimensions guessed for example purposes)

There can only be 2 pieces of bodywork, each fully enclosed when viewed as a cross-section, between 100mm and 300mm from the car centre line.
Each component must be of uniform cross section when viewed from the side.
Each component must be located within a section no more than 800mm from the front axle centre line, and no less than 550mm from front axle centre line.
Each component must be no more than 120mm above the reference plane, no less than 50mm above the reference plan.
No single component when viewed from the side, may be more than 100mm in length

So you get a 2 piece wing, of limited overall dimensions, and placed within a defined location which is larger than the overall wing dimensions, but plenty of scope to design within those limits.

Of course, teams will never go for moves such this as it would likely mean reducing their staffing by substantial levels, and not many turkeys vote for Christmas.

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Nice Ideas Muddly but maybe missing the point a little,

I think the FIA have got themselves into a position where they don't want to pee anyone off. Teams, Fans etc.

They've perhaps made a lot of wrong moves in recent years and perhaps cannot do what they really want because if they did, There is always going to be somebody who criticizes them.

If the FIa even made changes you say, there is going to be a group of people who will moan about the rules being restrictive, that it is becoming a spec formula. No doubt somebody will mention GP3 again.

But if the FIA did nothing they still get criticism. I feel like there now sort trying win a popular battle which they simply can't and keep everyone happy. Perhaps thats where come of the other more bizarre change have come from.

Forget F1, you cant do that in life
You can never please everyone.

 

[Muddytalker]

There's some fair points there, but it's not the role of the FIA to please everyone.

They are the rulemakers for international motorsport events, and now we have (supposedly) a new regime in place, the FIA have to decide what they want Grand Prix racing to be. Is it
(a) A testing ground for car technology,
(b) An arms race to the chequered flag or
(c) Entertainment?

I think the FIA has been guilty of trying to simultaneously please these 3 criteria, rather than the fans, manufacturers and teams, when at best I'd say they could satisfy 2 of the above.

Now, given that the FIA asked for OWG to come up with ideas to 'improve the spectacle' (i.e. aiming for (c) above), and that hasn't happened in terms of making overtaking easier (which is different to having more overtaking), IMO they need to either
i) Go back to the OWG and ask the OWG to provide better solutions ;
ii) Disband the OWG and formulate the rules themselves;
iii) Forget about (c) and allow F1 to move towards (a) and (b), and by definition forget about trying to reduce costs;

 

[Brogan]

In addition to a, b and c Muddy, I would say what kind of race does F1 want to be?
A sprint race? A short version of an endurance race? A combination of both?