Singapore 2008 under investigation

[teabagyokel]

Q. Why did you give him a drive for another year if he was so bad?

FB: I didn't have anybody else. I had an option to take Nelson after the 30th of September, and I didn't take it.

I didn't have anyone else? Yes you did, Flavio! Or has he actually done what he's threatened to do for a long and alienated every driver in F1 and its feeder categories?

Q. During these difficult times for the team, has there been any moment when you have thought about resigning?

FB: We already had a difficult time after the race in Budapest. We didn't believe it was fair what the stewards did to us because it was a normal accident. It happens all the time.

You could have killed someone, but you really don't care, do you?

Q. Have you ever heard of a team issuing an instruction to a driver to crash?

FB: No. Never. Fernando only won the race because Massa had a problem, Kubica had a problem. There were six or seven problems.

I think Barrichello stopped in the same place as Piquet. What is possible on lap 14, with 40 laps to go, to determine somebody winning the race. There was another pit stop, another safety car. On lap 14, how is it possible to know what is going to happen? What is possible that on lap 14 you know what is going on?.

It depends if you've got a driver who's taken a fuel stop on lap 13 meaning everyone else has to refuel and the entire field bunches up, doesn't it? Massa had a problem because he was forced to pit, Kubica had a problem because he was forced to pit. That's how you know, Flavio, that's how you know!

Q. Do you think someone is trying to discredit you?

FB: You know what? Whatever happens, if someone goes against the rules, they go against the rules. If I tell you to go rob a bank – afterwards, you decide whether to rob the bank or not. I don't feel I have any responsibility, and we don't feel we have done absolutely anything [wrong]. In the case of Piquet we go to the World Council. But the fact already that we have put a criminal plan to Piquet is because we have enough confidence to be successful - the team and myself.

Depends if you're going to be sacked from your job if you don't rob the bank doesn't it? It is your responsiblity because you are team principal, and a jumped up Mussolini of a team principal at that. If something happens at that team without Briatore's express permission or knowledge I would be more surprised than McLaren when they were confident they weren't going to get punished for Spygate.

Pull the other one, Flavio. And Grow Up!

 

[Brogan]

There's an interesting article in The Guardian on this and wider issues.

Formula One's era of greed and mistrust in has turned a code of honour into a rat race

Maybe it's just me but I get the impression the author isn't a fan of Bernie or Max

 

[teabagyokel]

I know the Guardian doesn't have the strongest right-wing capitalist tradition but this is a well thought out and true piece. Looking through the perspective of safety, of professionalism and of raising money, Bernax has been good for F1. Of course we all want drivers to survive their F1 careers.

However, when you consider F1 through the perspective of integrity, of racing and of the spirit of fair play, Bernax has been more corrosive than a huge vat of conc. sulphuric acid. You wouldn't see Denny Hulme forced to crash so his team leader could win a race, even though his team leader was also his boss.

No, there was not unanimous fair play in the old days, but there was a feeling that the show must go on, rather than a FIA-FOTA war. The sorry state of affairs by which F1 is toeing the line between the sport and business pages of the newspapers is due to Bernax and only Bernax. There is no doubt at all they have damaged F1's image in persuit of the next bag of dollars, yuen and euros.

I would say that Flavio Briatore was the first businessman with no interest in the sport to take over a team. It is a measure of the man that he does not share the Constructors' Trophy Glory around his team as have Brawn, Todt, Dennis, Horner, Williams and just about everyone else who has been successful enough to do it! He is the physical representation of all that is wrong with F1 (and football). Love him or hate him, even Ron Dennis seemed to be more immersed in McLaren than Briatore is in Renault. He took the job because he missed hobnobbing with Ecclestone.

I wish F1 was run by sportsmen rather than businessmen. The drivers are by and large sportsmen, even if they are careful to maintain their corporate responsibilities. They are the young kids who got to be the racing drivers. Some of the team bosses seem to have the same enthusiasm. Stefano Dominicali looks overjoyed to be working for Ferrari, Martin Whitmarsh shows great loyalty to McLaren, Peter Sauber is trying to keep his team running despite the loss of the Sauber identity in 2005 etc.

Lets get back to the days of fair play whilst maintaning the professional and safe standards. It is not impossible. It is just counter to too many vested interests for it to actually happen.

 

[Brogan]

Well said TBY

 

[McZiderRed]

Yes, nice post TBY.

I read that article in the Guardian today (I buy the Guardian, as I also do not have the strongest right-wing capitalist tradition either! ) and I was going to post a link to it, but I was slightly beaten to it. I think F1 is run by big business far too much. Privateer racers, with business investing (teams need money after all) but not running the show. That is what F1 should be...

 

[Brogan]

More leaks and rumours are coming out.

Williams co-owner Patrick Head told reporters on Sunday that a journalist informed him Piquet had confessed about the crash 15 minutes after the Singapore night race.

I can't believe that all these people who apparently had been told, knew or suspected didn't act on it.

Apparently Renault have already pencilled in prospective replacements for Briatore, depending on the outcome, with Alain Prost at the top of the list.

Briatore speculation ahead of WMSC hearing

 

[teabagyokel]

The only disappointing thing about your post is "depending on the outcome". Shaft Flabio and bring in la profeseur anyway!

 

[Muddytalker]

Shaft Flabio and bring in la profeseur anyway!

I agree with the first part, but saw nothing from the Prost F1 team to suggest he would be anything like as successful a Team Manager as he was a driver.

 

[teabagyokel]

I don't think =7th in the Constructors' Championship is the Renault F1 idea of what constitutes success. Surely Alain will do better as a team manager than my awful attempt at writing his nickname in French!

And remember Prost had a decent year as a team manager in 1997 coming 7th with a significantly smaller budget than Flabio is managing this year!

 

[Brogan]

Footage of the crash and the practice crash on the warm up lap

And for the real conspiracy theorists, a document which claims to have FIA statements and telemetry:

http://axisofoversteer.com/blog/documents/Fit Of PK.pdf

 

[Speshal]

That's Flavio screwed then...

Pat Symonds has been offered immunity if he comes clean........


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 834557.ece

 

[Galahad]

Explosive stuff. It looks as if Max won't be able to get Flav after all (but if Renault withdraw, as surely they would be likely to, that might result anyway).

Thing is, neither Pat Symonds nor Flavio would have been short of job offers or cash if the Renault team had left F1 at the end of last season. Their consideration must have been for the other members of the team, I guess. Which makes it doubly ironic that they went on to win the following race on merit.

 

[Muddytalker]

FIA using their divide and conquer tactics again.

Max is really 'taking them down with me' before he goes, isn't he?

 

[Brogan]

Wow!

So the allegations do have substance then according to the latest reports.

The FIA wouldn't be offering this out to Symonds if they didn't think he had anything to say.

For those who haven't seen it, here's a partial transcript.

FIA adviser: In your own words Mr. Symonds what do you recall being said to Nelson Piquet Jnr at that meeting? This is shortly before the race.

Symonds: I don't really remember it.

FIA adviser: You don't remember?

Symonds: No.

FIA adviser: Nelson Piquet Jnr says that he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?

Symonds: Nelson had spoken to me the day before and suggested that. That's all I'd really like to say.

(...)

FIA adviser: Mr Symonds were you aware that there was going to be crash at Lap 14?

Symonds: I don't want to answer that question.

(...)

FIA adviser: There is just one thing that I ought to ask you and put it to you so you can think about it at least. Mr. Piquet Jnr says that having had the initial meeting with you and Flavio Briatore you then met him individually with the map of the circuit. Do you remember that?

Symonds: I won't answer, rather not answer that. I don't recall it but it sounds like Nelson's talked a lot more about it.

FIA adviser: Mr. Piquet Jnr also says at that meeting you pointed out a specific place on the circuit where he was to have the accident and said it was because it was the furthest away from any of the safety or lifting equipment and gave the most likely chance of a safety car being deployed.

Symonds: I don't, I don't want to answer that question.

FIA adviser: [Referring to the pre-race meeting] Was it you that did the talking at that meeting Mr. Symonds?

Symonds: I'm sure it would have been both of us but I don't know for sure. Sorry that's a contradiction. I would imagine it would be both of us that would be normal. Actually probably more often it's Flavio that does the talking himself. I wouldn't necessarily always agree with what he's saying but the majority.

FIA adviser: Because just to be absolutely clear here what Nelson Piquet Jnr has said is that at that meeting it was you that asked him to have a crash deliberately?

Symonds: I can't answer you.

FIA adviser: Can I say that if Mr. Symonds you'd been put in the position where you were made to ask Mr. Piquet Jnr to crash it's much better, it would be much better for you in the long term to tell these stewards to hear that today?

Symonds: I fully understand that.

FIA adviser: Yes.

Symonds: I have no intention of lying to you. I have not lied to you but I have reserved my position just a little.

FIA adviser: And you're aware that the stewards may draw conclusions from your unwillingness to assist them in relation to what went on in that meeting?

Symonds: I would expect them to. I would absolutely expect that.

FIA adviser: I think I haven't got any further questions.

Transcript of Pat Symonds' FIA interview

The way this is playing out is almost a carbon-copy of the McLaren incident earlier this year.
Carefully controlled leaks, mounting evidence, evasive responses, promises of immunity, etc.

 

[teabagyokel]

I have to say that the warm-up lap spin was a carbon copy of the spin on lap 14, but for him evading the wall on the warm-up lap.

Why does Pat Symonds not say the obvious thing when asked if he asked Piquet to crash: "No!" Most of the world would understand "I don't want to answer that" as "Yes!"

 

[FB]

Two words - Bye Flavio!

 

[Brogan]

I have to say that the warm-up lap spin was a carbon copy of the spin on lap 14, but for him evading the wall on the warm-up lap.

If it was he was very close to binning it there.
He couldn't have been more than half a metre from the wall.

With Max the FIA offering Symonds immunity, is that him basically getting Briatore due to the whole FOTA thing before he finally leaves ?

As we've seen in the past, Max tends to pursue personal agendas until he gets what he wants.

 

[RickD]

I have to say that the warm-up lap spin was a carbon copy of the spin on lap 14, but for him evading the wall on the warm-up lap.

Why does Pat Symonds not say the obvious thing when asked if he asked Piquet to crash: "No!" Most of the world would understand "I don't want to answer that" as "Yes!"

Well, perhaps he knows exactly what happened and doesn't want a ton of bricks to come down on him when it turns out there is evidence to say that he was in fact lying.

He probably learnt how to deal with these type of questions off Gormless Clown, our current Prime Minister..

 

[Brogan]

Gormless Clown, our current Prime Minister..

 

[teabagyokel]

To start with, don't get me started about the ridiculous coverage of the Prime Minister since he's come into the job. He's just had no luck whatsoever and he's proved if the media want you out, then you'll go out. There is nothing he could have done without being as unpopular as he is. Why must politicians have charisma? That means we always end up with sugar-coated turds like Blair and Cameron!

Back to the topic in hand

With Max the FIA offering Symonds immunity, is that him basically getting Briatore due to the whole FOTA thing before he finally leaves ?

Lets not become cynical here, if they're asking drivers to crash in order to throw the result then they deserve to be punished. Also, it is a good tactic as investigators to offer immunity to any possible squealers in order that they get the truth.

Well, perhaps he knows exactly what happened and doesn't want a ton of bricks to come down on him when it turns out there is evidence to say that he was in fact lying.

It seems to me he hasn't decided if he's going to take his immunity or come down on his employer's side and hope Renault get off.

It doesn't seem that likely though, the FIA don't call the WMSC for nothing in general!