Singapore 2008 under investigation

[teabagyokel]

The plot thickens! I think Felipe Massa will be somewhere at home really annoyed at the moment. If it weren't for this deliberate Safety Car incident then he would not have left the pit with the hose attached, he would have won the race and he would be World Champion!

Personally I hope Renault the Team do not receive a lifetime ban - some of the individuals, certainly, but Renault have played a large part in F1 as constructors and engine suppliers and all that would happen without them would be a move towards Max's dream of a single make series.

I agree, I hope Flavio Briatore will be landing on his arse somewhere! This could be so damaging to the image of the whole Renault company, Symonds and Briatore are unlikely to survive any investigation by whoever makes the decisions at Renault! I think there's another grid slot open next year, too!

WINNER OF THE 2008 SINGAPORE GRAND PRIX: Nico Rosberg

Awful news for the reputation of Formula One.

 

[Muddytalker]

Well, well, this is all starting to look like a bit too much smoke for there not to be a fire, and Renault are at the top.

It looks like I was wrong too, and wrongly maligned lil' Nelson. I guess, when you are not only under pressure to perform in an F1 car you know is not a match for your team mate, and that the team run by your own manager won't even say whether you will be with them next year, plus the fact that your Dad is a triple WC (and not even in the top 3 of national heroes of a country that relies on sport for it's national pride), then there will be a few voices in your head wondering what you should do. So, my apologies to Nelson, and I think time to start scouring the vacancies Mr Symonds, probably best not to try the back pages of Autosport for a short while.
As for Flavio, I suspect he will be quietly moved on within Renault rather than banned outright, as BCE is his investment buddy.

 

[Brogan]

Well none of this is confirmed yet, including the alleged statement.

So it could all end up being a lot of hot air about nothing.
If it is though, someone(s) has gone to a lot of trouble to make it look genuine.

I guess we'll know in about 2 weeks what the FIA think of it all.

 

[GeoffP]

I certainly hope it's not true, the way the story seems to have started is by Jr telling Sr it wasn't his fault and then KABOOM!

One question, would you include Jr. in your signature if you had given your birth date?

I would love to see if there is any way Renault can get a Flavectomy and stay in F1!

 

[teabagyokel]

Either Piquet deliberately crashed his car, or there is someone out there with way too much time on his hands, a degree in law and a mischevious interest in Renault F1!

If that is Piquet's statement and they have telemetry and Briatore and Symonds admit there was a deliberate crash it looks very ominous for Renault.

Btw, Symonds and Briatore think it was Piquet's idea. How would that conversation go?

PS: Well, I'm stuck for strategies that could get us from 15th and 16th on the grid.
NP: I tell you what, why don't I crash my car?
PS: Why would you do that Nelson?
NP: If I crash my car, the Safety Car would come out and launch Fernando up the field.
PS: It could work, if we ensure Fernando's just stopped at the time of the Safety Car
FB: Nelsinho, I disapprove, I think we should play it by the book.
PS: You're right, boss, we can't go cheating by deliberately crashing cars around the place.
NP: No, I insist, shortfuel Fernando and I'll run in the wall. Can I have a new contract, by the way?
FB: I don't agree with this, but you can drive for us in 2009 if it comes off!

Yeah, right!

 

[FB]

Bro, one quote you missed from the Autosport article:

Briatore is reported to have claimed that he was: "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family

All together now - Ahh, poor Flabio, being threatened by those nasty Piquet children. You tell them you know Bernie Ecclestone and he will box their ears if they carry on.

 

[teabagyokel]

Briatore is reported to have claimed that he was: "a victim of extortion by the Piquet family"

What? I'd change your name back to Fat Bloke, mate, with a name like FB someone might get the wrong impression...

That is slightly odd, were the Piquets asking for a higher wage, Flavio? You didn't actually have to hire him! What a pity it took you 18 months to work that out.

My heart bleeds!

 

[Speshal]

Ohhhh 100 million fine and the removal of Flavio should just about do it (copying your competitors data or causing a potentially fatal crash - which is worse - hmmmmmm)

I might trawl thru the rules and regs in a bit but from memory any charge would be under 151.c again?

*Edit @ Bro - That statement - although looks authentic I think should be taken with a pinch of salt as the signature at the bottom looks a bit iffy?

as per....

however .........

 

[Brogan]

Yes, I'm not convinced that it is genuine but why on earth would someone go to the effort of faking something like that?

Meanwhile, Briatore responds.

Renault boss Flavio Briatore says that the race-fix claims being aimed at him and his outfit are 'outrageous lies', after warning Nelson Piquet Sr. that he may take legal action against him over the matter.

Ahead of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council meeting in Paris on September 21, where Renault must answer claims that it deliberately caused a crash to help Fernando Alonso win, details of the case have been emerging.

AUTOSPORT understands that part of the evidence that has been submitted to the FIA ahead of the hearing is a letter that Briatore sent to Piquet Sr. on July 28 - two days after Max Mosley had been informed of the Singapore events but two days prior to Piquet Jr. making his official testimony to the governing body.

Full story: Briatore: Piquet claims 'outrageous lies'

 

[Speshal]

Yes, I'm not convinced that it is genuine but why on earth would someone go to the effort of faking something like that?

Totally agree and apparently The Times has verified that it is genuine!

 

[Brogan]

Note though that The Times link to the only site so far that has the statement (F1SA) so everyone's feeding off that and assuming it's genuine.

This is from the Times link:

Bernie Ecclestone, the Formula One commercial rights-holder, told The Times that Piquet informed him he was going to tell the FIA about the affair as long ago as the Monaco Grand Prix at the end of May.

According to Ecclestone, Piquet has told the FIA that it was Ecclestone who encouraged the driver to follow through on a course of action that would damage Briatore, but the promoter denied this.

“At no time did I tell him to f*** Flavio,” Ecclestone said last night. “He said he was going to do it and I simply said, ‘There is no use you saying you are going to do something — either do it or stop talking about it.’ To be honest, I genuinely believed at that time that he would not do it.”

This just gets weirder and weirder.

So BE knew about it from May but didn't do anything about it?
Surely he had a duty to report potentially fraudulent and dangerous behaviour as soon as he became aware of it?

Piquet wasn't sacked until after Hungary which was 2 months later.

Something is not right in this whole affair.

 

[Muddytalker]

Note though that The Times link to the only site so far that has the statement (F1SA) so everyone's feeding off that and assuming it's genuine.

This is from the Times link:

Bernie Ecclestone, the Formula One commercial rights-holder, told The Times that Piquet informed him he was going to tell the FIA about the affair as long ago as the Monaco Grand Prix at the end of May.

According to Ecclestone, Piquet has told the FIA that it was Ecclestone who encouraged the driver to follow through on a course of action that would damage Briatore, but the promoter denied this.

“At no time did I tell him to f*** Flavio,” Ecclestone said last night. “He said he was going to do it and I simply said, ‘There is no use you saying you are going to do something — either do it or stop talking about it.’ To be honest, I genuinely believed at that time that he would not do it.”

This just gets weirder and weirder.

So BE knew about it from May but didn't do anything about it?
Surely he had a duty to report potentially fraudulent and dangerous behaviour as soon as he became aware of it?

Piquet wasn't sacked until after Hungary which was 2 months later.

Something is not right in this whole affair.

If Bernie's not an employee of the FIA then I wouldn't think there's any legal obligation, though there ought to be a moral obligation. Oh wait, hang on, I see what I did there... From Bernie's point of view, until the allegation is made official it would be just hearsay, and he'll only reveal what he knows when it's to his advantage. which begs the question, why now admit he knew anything about it?

 

[Brogan]

The whole affair just went up a notch.

Renault have started criminal proceedings against the Piquets.

The Renault team and its boss Flavio Briatore have begun criminal proceedings against Nelson Piquet Junior and Nelson Piquet Senior following an alleged attempt "to blackmail" the French squad.

Renault is facing allegations of race-fixing after Piquet Jr told the FIA saying he had been asked to crash during the Singapore Grand Prix in order to benefit team-mate Fernando Alonso.

Briatore denied the accusations as "outrageous lies" and threatened with legal action, a threat that materialised on Friday, when Renault announced it had begun criminal proceedings against Piquet and his father.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78478

Wonder if Alonso is getting flashbacks?

 

[Speshal]

With legal proceedings under way can the World Motor Sport Council hearing go ahead?

 

[FB]

Whether Piquet is telling the truth or not this must be making Renault think long and hard about whether to continue running an F1 team. This sort of publicity, especially when it is one man's word against another's, must be hugely embarrassing for them.

Perhaps they will retreat to being an engine manufacturer again? It would be a shame to lose them the sport entirely. As for some of the team members, I can only see F1 racings reputation being massively improved if they were to take their fat ar#e out of the sport and quietly get on with destroying QPR.

 

[Brogan]

If Renault are found guilty then I highly doubt the FIA will do anything that would affect the WDC.
Just for reference though, here are some possible scenarios and the effect on the points and WDC.

.   	               After Singapore	Total

No change to results

Lewis Hamilton		84		98 (WDC)

Felipe Massa		77		97



Alonso disqualified and Hamilton moves up to 2nd		

Lewis Hamilton		86		100 (WDC)

Felipe Massa		77		97



Race annulled and all points removed		

Lewis Hamilton		78		92

Felipe Massa		77		97 (WDC)



Race declared prior to the crash at less than half distance and half points awarded

Lewis Hamilton		82		96

Felipe Massa		82		102 (WDC)



Massa finished 1st and Hamilton 2nd (assuming there had been no crash)		

Lewis Hamilton		86		100

Felipe Massa		87		107 (WDC)

The lap chart shows that Massa was leading and Hamilton was 2nd prior to the crash:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/2008/singapore/Pages/lap_chart.aspx

Of course, there would have been a knock-on effect on the remaining 3 races if Massa had won it so it's impossible to say what the final points would have been and who would have been WDC.

 

[Brogan]

Mosley speaks up.

FIA president Max Mosley says that race fix claims surrounding Renault are being viewed as more serious than outright cheating by the governing body, after revealing on Friday that Nelson Piquet has been granted immunity.
...
"If you look at any other sport, if somebody fixes the result then it's usually taken seriously," said Mosley, speaking to selected media including AUTOSPORT in his office at the Monza circuit. "Fixing is one degree worse than cheating.

"If you're a cyclist and you take dope, that's cheating. If you bribe the other cyclists, or you get somebody to have a crash in the peloton so the yellow jersey guy crashes, that's more serious.

"Then if it puts human life at risk, whether it's the spectators, the marshals or the drivers, then it's more serious again. The moment we talk about that, we sort of imply they (Renault) are guilty, but we don't know. Until they put their defence in, we've got to assume they're innocent."
...
"We have said to him that, and I don't know exactly how it was phrased, but he has been told that if he tells us the truth then he will not be proceeded against individually," he said. "It is exactly the same as it was for Alonso [in the McLaren case in 2007]."

Mosley has also expressed regret that documents relating to the Renault trial were leaked this week - and says that action will be taken in the future to ensure that it does not happen again.

Wow! NP has been granted immunity!

Also, concerning the statement about the leaks, it seems to be confirming that NP's statement is genuine.

This is also worth noting.

Mosley confirmed that the most severe penalty of total exclusion from the world championship was a possibility if Renault was found guilty, and he clarified that it was now too late for the result of last year's Singapore Grand Prix or world championship to be changed.

So that's some good news at least.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78483

 

[teabagyokel]

So, we've learned that Bernie is a lying, good-for-nothing a***hole who only does things according to his vested interests and Flavio is a cheating lying moron who seems to think the best way to stop himself getting convicted is going to court. Something new?

If Renault are found guilty at the WMSC, does that mean Flavio will sue them? Stop acting like children, you've been caught red handed and should frankly take your medicine.

 

[teabagyokel]

From PlanetF1:

Both FOTA and Max Mosley have expressed concerns after data crucial to the FIA's investigation into Renault was leaked to the media.

Renault will face the FIA's World Motor Sport Council on September 21st to answer charges of race-fixing relating to last year's Singapore GP.

Renault are alleged to have "deliberately" caused Nelson Piquet Jr's crash on lap 14, which brought out the Safety Car and helped his team-mate Fernando Alonso claim the win.

The allegations have made by Piquet Jr, who gave a statement to investigators, which was subsequently leaked to the media.

It is not yet known who leaked the information, however, it has caused great concern for FOTA who feel it could cause prejudice ahead of the hearing.

"FOTA today express concern at the leakage of information, which may or may not be relevant to the FIA current enquiry into the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix," FOTA said in a statement.

"All parties to the dispute should have the right to a fair hearing carried out in private and not in the public arena, which is producing adverse publicity damaging to the corporate image and credibility of Formula 1.

"FOTA believes that differences within the sport should be handled in professional manner and condemns the habit of intentionally releasing confidential documents to influence public opinion. Confidential documents should remain under the control of the competent authority."

FOTA, though, aren't the only ones who are concerned by the leak.

"That is actually very unfortunate because it is just one side of the story," FIA President Max Mosley told Autosport. "We are quite genuinely curious as to how that happened.

"Next time, when we send out to 20 or 30 people, we will probably arrange it in such a way that we can tell who is leaking stuff. We don't know how it happened."

Two things, I bet it is relevant and I don't really care about F1's "corporate image"!

This seems to suggest that the document signed by NAP is genuine. This plot is getting so thick it is nearly solid. This is more serious than the McLaren case, it is an absolutely awful cheat.

Anyone think a race fixing charge could be thrown on races such as Indy 2002, Austria 2002, Oz 1998 etc.?

 

[Brogan]

Q. Why do you think Nelson Piquet crashed deliberately?

FB: Nelson has crashed 17 times.

He's got a point

[bg=#E3001A]Autosport[/bg] Q & A with Flavio Briatore


There's also a Q&A with Max Mosley too.

[bg=#E3001A]Autosport[/bg] Q & A with Max Mosley