Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[teabagyokel]

He only finished 10th in Australia because he didn't push his car over the line and take a 10 place penalty for Imola.

 

[Grizzly]

Jenson 6th in Championship with 56 Points.

With his team mate on 30

 

[Jen]

Relevant or not, I would like to refer you all to this thread from last summer

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/sebastian-vettel-likes-to-turn-right.1641/

He has learnt a bit since then; but is he far enough along the learning curve - it would seem, by common consensus that he might be - certainly he doesn't chop right too often (but then has had no need to this season), but has learned the art of weaving.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Something I was thinking about recently.

People loved to talk about how lucky Lewis was to hop into the MP4-22 for his first F1 ride. And don't get me wrong, he was, few (if any?) rookies have stepped into such a fast car for their debut.

But looking back, just how lucky was this for Hamilton? Would he (anybody?) have wanted a championship winning car in their 1st year instead of their 3rd or 4th. This obviously glazes over the fact he won in 2008, but stick with me for a second.

In contrast with Lewis, Seb was sat in a Toro Rosso (which had a decent engine) for a year and given time to mature. Winning at Monza was the shining moment of a solid, yet somewhat unspectacular rookie campaign. On to Red Bull now and he's in the second best car on the grid, nearly closing a mammoth gap to eventual Champ Button and finishing 2nd in the WDC.

So now we've got two maturing drivers (Lewis in 2009, Seb in 2010) at very similar ages that have seen nearly unprecedented success in their first two seasons, one even collecting a championship. Both had the potential to win titles in the years ahead if given the machinery. One was, one wasn't.

Basically it boils down to this. Would a driver want to be thrown into the fire immediately, with a chance to capture a title without even having a chance to get his feet wet in F1? Or would they rather have a chance to mature a bit, go through trials and tribulations, and then be given the fastest car on the grid when they're going to have a better understanding of what it takes to deal with the Formula One Circus?

Obviously, people would kill for the opportunities either of these men have been given. But if forced to choose one path, wouldn't most drivers take the one that gave them the outstanding chance to win in their 3rd and 4th years instead of their 1st and 2nd?

Many years from now, history will observe that Sebastien Vettel had unbelievably fortunate timing in his early F1 career, more so than even Hamilton. Just when he was coming into his own as a driver he was given the best car in the field, and continues to have it, which is a truly frightening realization for McLaren/Hamilton/Ferrari/Alonso fans.

So, fortunate as he may be, Vettel is the real deal in my humble estimation. He must be the heavy favorite for this year's crown, and I imagine he'll be fighting for championships well into the future.

 

[Speshal]

 

[MCLS]

 

[Brogan]

Well we're on page 4 and we're all still talking to each other, so that's something

Once again he has blown the field away in qualifying at China - almost three quarters of a second gap to the next fastest car.
This is undoubtedly going to be his year but I expect there won't be too many happy higher-ups once casual fans start turning away mid-season.

 

[Hamberg]

So now we've got two maturing drivers (Lewis in 2009, Seb in 2010) at very similar ages that have seen nearly unprecedented success in their first two seasons, one even collecting a championship. Both had the potential to win titles in the years ahead if given the machinery. One was, one wasn't.

I would disagree with that as I think Vettel showed a great amount of immaturity last year with the way he treated overtaking and defending. We've not really seen an opportunity this year but the sharp movements he made at the start of last weekend makes me wary of his racecraft. We then had his reaction at Turkey last year.

I also believe Hamilton has never been given a car that blows the rest of the field away, unlike Vettel. If the McLaren was like the RB is this year in 2009 then surely Hamilton would have a double World Championship under his belt?

Another fundamental difference is the only point Vettel was ahead in the WDC was after Alonso crossed the line in Abu Dhabi. The pressure of defending a lead is different to chasing to it. Let's see how he gets on when it gets tight and he is in the lead.

 

[MCLS]

I think a 'Alonso Thread' here would end up in civil war though

 

[FB]

La, la, la, la... You can say what you like about me I'm not listening.

 

[ATL11]

WunOrAother

I would just like to see him try his skills out within a pack of drivers.....

 

[Jen]

WunOrAother

I would just like to see him try his skills out within a pack of drivers.....

Me too

 

[MCLS]

We saw that at Silverstone last year and he pretty much hit everyone, and Belgium

 

[ATL11]

We saw that at Silverstone last year and he pretty much hit everyone, and Belgium

Belgium was the best, how can you hit the side pod of your rival with your nose whilst trying to over take him? Oh yes, of course, dodgy flappy wings..... Red Bull does give you Wings as they say

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Relevant or not, I would like to refer you all to this thread from last summer

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/sebastian-vettel-likes-to-turn-right.1641/

He has learnt a bit since then; but is he far enough along the learning curve - it would seem, by common consensus that he might be - certainly he doesn't chop right too often (but then has had no need to this season), but has learned the art of weaving.

I'm not so sure after today that he has learnt very much, at least about start-line tactics.

 

[Brogan]

Definitely not.

If he had spent more time going forwards instead of swerving and blocking not one, but two cars, he wouldn't have ended up third by the first corner.

 

[MCLS]

His starts really are his Achilles heel. It's like he starts the race looking in his mirrors rather than turn 1

 

[Pyrope]

As luck would have it, luck plays a major part in Formula One. It should never be underestimated or undervalued.

I subscribe to Stirling Moss's theory that the best drivers have the best luck, because 90% of what we perceive as luck is actually a complex interplay of skill, sensitivity, intelligence and experience.

 

[ATL11]

What are Vettel's overtaking stats against top drivers?

 

[snowy]

Sebastian at the start was that strange quirk of turning right he has, were I Sebastian I would make a point of qualifying on the left hand side. He behaved himself for the rest of the time, drove in traffic and overtook Lewis on track, so a few of the less rational criticisms and doubts about his skill should have been dispelled.