Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[snowy]

Adrian Newey is an extraordinary character and he has left two teams specifically because he resented the way they treated a particular driver. He is not just any ordinary aerodynamicist. Christian Horner is wilier than a fox with a kalashnikov.

 

[teabagyokel]

I'm sure Button was harrying up Alonso's exhaust before the pit stops

Not the point, Button's previous 5 seasons of F1 meant he had a far cooler head than Vettel had any right to have at Monza.

 

[MCLS]

Vettel was extremely lucky at Monza in that both Ferraris were outside the top 6 and that the race was started under the safety car so Kovy couldn't even make a late dive into the first corner.

 

[Brogan]

Not the point, Button's previous 5 seasons of F1 meant he had a far cooler head than Vettel had any right to have at Monza.

What about Hamilton's first season?
Yes he was in a McLaren but he finished on the podium in his very first F1 race and went on to get nine consecutive podiums, with 2 wins and 4 second places.
Eclipsing his more experienced, double world champion team mate in the process.

 

[MCLS]

Fuji 2007 springs to mind there

 

[snowy]

As luck would have it, luck plays a major part in Formula One. It should never be underestimated or undervalued.

 

[teabagyokel]

What about Hamilton's first season?
Yes he was in a McLaren but he finished on the podium in his very first F1 race and went on to get nine consecutive podiums, with 2 wins and 4 second places.
Eclipsing his more experienced, double world champion team mate in the process.

I think that is just about the nearest. The thing about it is that the names you'd have to compare Vettel to in order to sustain a reasonable comparison are drivers of unquestioned quality!

 

[snowy]

Eclipsing his more experienced, double world champion team mate in the process.

This is neither the time or the place for basking in reflected glory!

 

[Brogan]

It's obvious that Vettel has the same natural ability that all the best drivers have, including Alonso, Hamilton, Schumacher (of old), etc. of the current crop.
I would just like to see him mixing it up a bit more to improve the areas I feel he is currently lacking in.

Undoubtedly he's doing no more than he needs to, to win races, but as we've seen, when he does come under pressure it can all go horribly wrong.
He's certainly not unique in that respect though either.

 

[teabagyokel]

He will return to "the mix" at some point this season, or in his career. For now, he's winning stuff!

 

[tooncheese]

Thing with Vettel is that the only time he has had a notably poorer car is early 09 when Button easily cast him aside (as mentioned the Toro wasn't too bad at Italy) . Other than that he has had a comfortably superior car. The car design may well be based around him now, and Shummi from 00-04 was quick but with effectively his own car and no other designs close to him. I'm sure there was a point to be made there but I have forgotten it...

 

[MCLS]

You could say that about Hamilton though as well

 

[teabagyokel]

And Alonso
And Prost
And Senna
And Fangio

 

[MCLS]

The problem for Hamilton and Vettel is people make the assumption that they make a lot of mistakes but they are only in their 4th year of F1, all their rookie mistakes were made in the limelight while the likes of Webber, Alonso and Button got their rookie mistakes out of their system in the likes of Minardi and pre 2005 Renault.

 

[Brogan]

For some reason, a lot of people also have an incorrect view of just how many mistakes Hamilton made in his first year.
I made a post about it here: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/lewis-hamilton-racer-or-reckless.780/#post-9672

 

[MCLS]

I'm not saying he made many mistakes Bro, just the ones he did make were severly highlighted and made out to be criminal errors which they weren't

 

[RickD]

TBY - I am sure if someone had given Buttona car that could actually win a GP in his first year or two, he might just have pulled it off. Vettel has never been in a dog of a car and has never had to struggle with the team manager favouring his own driver.

The biggest mistake Jenson made in his first year was under-estimating the brake testing skills of a certain German driver while behind the safety car. The seco9nd mistake was allowing himself to be outsourced with Flab (worst thing that could have happened to him, especially knowing the history there)...

The point is that some drivers are luckier than others, but not all drivers have the skill to be able to fight from down the grid to finish with a win or at least a podium, yet we have seen that from quite a few of the drivers in this thread (Button included), except Vettel..

On the Hungary win. To win, first you have to finish and it seemed that Alonso and the Renault pit crew were so worried about Button that they fluffed a pit stop and didn't do a wheel nut up. You can't really take anything away from Button for that and he won that GP on pure merit in a car that was a dog and had nothing on the top teams, unlike the Torro Rosso that Vettel was driving in Italy..

 

[teabagyokel]

Maybe. But Vettel is still a top driver. Even if only from pole. Every week.

 

[snowy]

You can't really take anything away from Button for that and he won that GP on pure merit in a car that was a dog and had nothing on the top teams, unlike the Torro Rosso that Vettel was driving in Italy..

I would be the last person to try and take anything away from Jenson but the Honda RA106 was hardly a dog.

2006 Lucky Strike Honda Racing F1 Team Honda RA106 

Jenson Button:	

BHR	4th 	

MAL	3rd 	

AUS	10th 

SMR	7th	

EUR	Ret 	

ESP	6th 	

MON	11th 	

GBR	Ret 	

CAN	9th 	

USA	Ret 

FRA	Ret 	

GER	4th

HUN	1st	

TUR	4th

ITA	5th

CHN	4th

JPN	4th

BRA	3rd

Jenson 6th in Championship with 56 Points.

 

[MCLS]

And scored more points than anyone else in the second half of the season