Head To Head Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo

Mephistopheles ; why is it a stretch???

Alonso has been going round that corner for years on this track and knows where the breaking point is and how fast you can go round....If there had been a wall there he would have used the brakes and DR would have been in front...

So my point is simple; even if he did not intend to get an advantage over both Red Bulls he did. And so the advantage should be given back because otherwise the driver who made the "mistake" benefits. And surely F1 is not about giving the guy who f's up a better track position that one who bides by the rules and the track limits????
 
But the start is a different issue cold tyres cold brakes, crowding by other drivers, not knowing exactly where you will be, going into the first corner and so on I just can't see that he intended to do it or I just don't want to, first lap incidents are mostly just that, incidents, I can't read to much into them, especially at the first corner of the first lap.

He let Vettel back through and I'm sure if he was told to he would have let Danny back through as well but no racing driver in his right mind is going to give a place away unless he has to.
 
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Agreed the start is a different scenario - hence my point that if he did not intend to get an advantage that's understood. Errors occur and mistakes happen in the heat of the fight ....but he still did get an advantage ....and so as the one making a mistake he should not be able to benefit from that mistake. Otherwise there would be mistakes on every lap....

Was it rights that a 5 second penalty for exceeding tack limits was applied later in the race yet Alonso gave back far less than 5 seconds for going much further over the track limits....

Not his fault that the rules are vague ...but again that brings me back to my original point that Alonso is very fast and very clever...
 
Agreed there are a lot of mistakes that are made on the first lap that the stewards in general ignore simply because it is the first lap and it is possible Alonso had this in mind when he did not give the place back to Danny, but like you say that does not mean he was cheating, it just means he is a thinking driver and one that knows the rules extremely well and uses those rules to his advantage which is all fair and above board..
 
Look up what Red Bull say about the race. It is pretty clear that Ricciardo would have been in front of Vettel at the finish had he not encountered car problems.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/9/16389.html

Also Alonos says "Now, in Suzuka, a real circuit, we will have a clearer picture of where we are." I presume that he has a similar attitude to Singapore as a racing venue as I have (the original did not have any bold characters).
 
Mephistopheles Tuscan1969 This is why I am not a fan of these big run off areas which is tarmac and do nothing to slow the drivers down on modern circuits...in essence gain an unfair advantage or not punished for their mistakes like the old gravel traps use to

Vettel got the jump on Ricciardo at the start and managed just about to hold him off which is a relief to Seb. Rosberg's retirement meant the Red Bull drivers actually clawed points back in the driver's race and Horner said both still have a chance of the driver's title - that is a different tune to what they did with Mark Webber back in 2010 when he even closer to Vettel and the Mclaren drivers

still realistically Seb needs to win all the remaining races and hope the Mercedes have a few retirements to stand a chance of retaining his title which would be the greatest comeback ever
 
Bill Boddy said:
Look up what Red Bull say about the race. It is pretty clear that Ricciardo would have been in front of Vettel at the finish had he not encountered car problems.
Click to expand

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. I think its been swings and roundabouts for both with 'car problems' this season so 'coulda woulda shoulda' is probably a bit pointless.

Nice to see both get big cheers on the podium.
 
Vettel doesn't mention anything about EBD in the article. He says the movement in the corners and the lack of power from the renault is giving him issues and everytime he tries to push he seems to get slower so is driving under his limit. He then goes on to say that there is no excuse and he as a driver has to figure out how to get round it.

So not quite what you said.
 
Long and short of it is that in this car he can't go as fast as DR....maybe next year will be the same maybe different.

No disrespect to Mark W but I do wish he'd gone a year or two earlier and we could have had a second benchmark for those 4 WDC's...
 
The Renault can't be all that bad, Ricciardo achieved the Italian GP week-end's highest top-speed - and the highest in F1 for sometime - at some 362k during the race. He probably had DRS at the time as well as a low-drag set-up but still...
 
Maybe the engine can produce the top speed but perhaps as a package i.e. weight / heat / size etc its too limiting on the other areas that RBR could develop the car???
 
I agree ; I am disappointed in Seb. this year.

Circumstances seem to be lending credence to the view that he was lucky to be in the Red Bull and paired with Mark who obviously did not like its blown diffuser character so much. Had he been paired with a different driver for some of the last four years it would have allowed a more considered view.
 
Brogan said:
A world class driver should be able to adapt.
Click to expand

Thats exactly what Vettel said.

Also lets be fair its not like his performances have been awful this season and its not like he's actually been that far behind Ricciardo its just Ricciardo has been better than him and is having an awesome season.

I think the whole point he's making in the interview is that its the first time he's struggled with a car for ages and its taken him much longer than expected to get on terms with it. He even says no excuses himself.

All of the current world champions have had a season when they've been unexpectedly beaten by an on form team mate and how good they are is judged on their attitude and subsequent seasons. Fernando threw a strop and went into the wilderness for a year or two but did come back. Lewis got depressed but turned it round the following year. Kimi has never been the same ever again. So far I think we'll all agree that Seb has accepted his current situation with good grace but it remains to be seen if he makes a come back from it.

Danny Ric has set himself a very high bar he has to get over and the media and fan reaction has pushed it even higher. He seems to me to be able to handle it but there will be very different expectations on him next season. As stated by Mark 'worst driver ever' Webber, right now every result is a victory for him and he had nothing to loose. It won't be like that next year.
 
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Looks like Alonso's words about Vettel's ability in not the best car are ringing true

The EBD has helped Vettel's corner speed ability and he has having to rework everything but it is the same for Daniel who has just done a better job instead of moaning about all the problems like Seb did about the car

As for Webber - he did blow hot and cold during his 5 years as Vettel's teammate whilst he did seem to have most of the bad luck.. he also let the paranoia that Vettel was the favoured son consume him too much and Marko constantly pointing a gun to his head to give up his seat for one of the STR drivers to the point where he has to raise a white flag

- if only Webber had won the world title in 2010 then maybe then things could have turned out different for Vettel to establish himself as the NO 1 in the team then
 
Bushi that's what was happening to Hamilton and still is for some people . Great champions come back when their backs are against the wall and come back stronger so lets see where Seb is in 12 months time against Daniel and people will make a different view about him

Once you're at the top the only way is down as they say
 

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