ExtremeNinja have I missed a few posts? That denial is confusing as I don't think anyone was talking about you were they?
Head To Head Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo
- Thread starter Greenlantern101
- Start date
All F1 drivers are world class?
Not sure about that.
Not sure about that.
Sakon Yamamoto comes to mind.....
Mephistopheles it's strange but I am not at all amazed that you are not amazed that people don't rate Vettel because of the car he's in, and that you are able to find a way of turning this into being about another driver in another car, just in case they should happen to win this year's title. 
Just separating myself from your blanket opinions of anyone and tarring of all who do not share your opinions on Vettel, RasputinLives. That is all.
Well it is true that the driver who does win this years title will have done so by virtue of having the vastly superior car isn't it Chad Stewarthill I don't think anyone can deny that, but sure shot me down for stating a completely inarguable fact if it makes you feel better.
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Oops forgot the winky. sorry about that.
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Oops forgot the winky.
sorry about that.
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How on gods green earth can anyone not rate a driver who has won four world titles? Please I truly want to know as I am completely baffled...
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Actually I have just thought about it and in fact you do rate him ExtremeNinja it's just that you rate him as being crap, so there must be something extremely flawed with F1 if a driver can win four championships by being crap and break multiple records on the way by being crap and put on a show in wheel to wheel racing like he did at Silverstone by being crap.
Right that's it pack it in lads close the doors on F1 because it is obviously crap when a crap driver can win..
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To me there is an obvious talent list in F1 of which drivers such as Vettel and Hamilton are on and drivers like Sutil and Maldonado are definitely not.
And to dismiss a driver like Vettel is total bullshit I'm not a fan of Hamilton everyone knows that and I don't even try to hide it but I cannot say that the man doesn't have speed and talent purely on the grounds that I'm not his fan...
And to dismiss a driver like Vettel is total bullshit I'm not a fan of Hamilton everyone knows that and I don't even try to hide it but I cannot say that the man doesn't have speed and talent purely on the grounds that I'm not his fan...
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So, Mephistopheles , I take it that you do rate Vettel highly (as do I, so there's something we agree on), even though he's had the best car for the last four seasons (perhaps not quite as dominant as this year's Merc, but the best car nevertheless)?
You can't dismiss a driver like Vettel who has 4 Championships to his name... however I think I've seen enough to cloud my opinion of him. Just how good were those Red Bulls? (We know how crap Webber was!) I think if he's to be considered among the greatest drivers he needs to face Hamilton or Alonso in equal machinery, and at least match them.
Chad Stewarthill I have seen plenty of drivers who have had the best car in F1 not win the championship the car is a massive factor but the driver has to make good use of it and he will always have a teammate in the same equipment as him to beat..
But no-FIAt-please Button put on a good show as Hamilton's team mate and you don't rate him either so how am I to believe that would change your opinion on Vettel?
Precisely, Mephistopheles. And since Vettel consistently beat his team-mate, I think you and I are in agreement that his talent and his achievements in winning four WDC titles are not to be sniffed at.
Il_leone
World Champion
Piquet was not rated because he had the best car usually and at the same time he decided to play dirty and insult other drivers personally and he took the money and prestige to be No 1 at Lotus because he could not face getting beat by Mansell in the same team
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Going back to Vettel - he's going through the same criticism as Damon Hill did which I have said many times on having a car designed by Newey. If he wins its because its the car and and if he loses its him ... and that aint going to change unless he shows he copes in positions of adversity which is a test of a true F1 legend.
Off course if he does well in a non Red Bull car not designed by Newey and REd Bull go backwards after he leaves then his stock will go up
It is good that we can agree sometimes Chad Stewarthill ..
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Incubus
Champion Elect
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That all dates back from the 1986-87 period. He was very highly rated before that and when he joined the all-conquering Williams-Honda he was expected to cruise to the title and easily get the better of Mansell.
When Nigel started beating him fairly regularly there was a big element of surprise at the time, but eventually it began to dawn on people that that Nelson had previously never actually found himself in an intra-team-mate battle situation, with the exception of 1979 when Lauda's focus was clearly on his avatiation interests.
His reputation took a bit of a battering from which it never recovered.
However i think it's much too early to say the same thing will happen to Vettel though.
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Don't forget Piquet still won the 87 title and beat Mansell with cunning more than pace. I thought the main reason he went to Lotus though was the fact that Honda who were paying a fair chunk of his pay pulled out of their Williams deal to move to McLaren. It has been stated that part of the reason for Honda leaving in 87 was down to Williams not reigning Mansell in when Piquet was supposed to be the Number 1.
Anyhow, every World Champion struggles once in a while.
Anyhow, every World Champion struggles once in a while.
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