Head To Head Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo

[no-FIAt-please]

Alonso said he'd rate Vettel as an all-time great once he showed what he could do in an average car. Well, Ricciardo won and Vettel spun. After only finishing ahead of Ricciardo once (twice really with Malaysia) all season it's becoming a little bit ridiculous now. Is Ricciardo the next superstar or is Vettel just not all that?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Both!

 

[Mephistopheles]

Every race I watch Danny and every race he impresses me more and more he isn't in the best car and is the only driver to beat the Merc's and he has done it not once but twice the lad is going to be hot property on the drivers market...

 

[Il_leone]

Alonso said he'd rate Vettel as an all-time great once he showed what he could do in an average car. Well, Ricciardo won and Vettel spun. After only finishing ahead of Ricciardo once (twice really with Malaysia) all season it's becoming a little bit ridiculous now. Is Ricciardo the next superstar or is Vettel just not all that?

Well out of the top 3 yesterday - Vettel cracked under pressure from Hamilton whereas Alonso showed everyone why he is the best driver in the business defending the lead resolutely until not able to hold off the much faster Ricciardo


Daniel getting the praise from the other two will irk Seb even further whose stock in the team must be falling

If only Daniel was not let down by a DQ not his own fault and a fluffed up pit stop ..he would have even further ahead of Seb

Regardless what happens now till the end of the season Seb has been made to look ordinary

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28610.html

I am waiting for praises from Helmut for justifying Daniel's promotion

 

[RasputinLives]

If Vettel looks 'ordinary' then that doesn't make Ricciardo's performance as brilliant as they have been.

However if Ricciardo's performances have been amazing its because he's taking it too and beating a top class driver.

You can't have it both ways guys. Need to make up your mind.

 

[Il_leone]

Seb is being made to look ordinary and I don't know if its sour grapes that he mentioned the safety car helped Daniel

 

[RasputinLives]

Is it sour grapes when its true?

But if Vettel is ordinary then Ricciardo should be beating him right? Therefore his season hasn't been that great. Unless of course Ricciardo has been beating one of the current best drivers in F1, in which case he's been having a brilliant season.

Like I said. You guys can't have it both ways.

 

[Il_leone]

Is it sour grapes when its true?

But if Vettel is ordinary then Ricciardo should be beating him right? Therefore his season hasn't been that great. Unless of course Ricciardo has been beating one of the current best drivers in F1, in which case he's been having a brilliant season.

Like I said. You guys can't have it both ways.

- no but Vettel value is diminishing

 

[Brogan]

Il_leone, please stop block quoting every post you respond to.

There is absolutely no need, especially when it's the preceding post.

 

[Il_leone]

sorry

 

[RasputinLives]

There seems to be a lot of people very happy at Vettel having a below par season. Some of them almost seem to be throwing street partys.

I'll let you all into a little secret here at CTA. Despite what some of you think I'm am not a Seb Vettel fan. I never really cheered for him but I can recognise when someone is performing well and he was performing well which is why he won so much in such a convincing style.

Because he's done that though it means the same thing has happened to him as has happened to anyone else who dominates a period of F1. People decide to tear him down because they become tired of seeing him win. People start to come up with the same old theories of 'its the car', 'he got special treatment', 'he's very lucky' and they are so anxious to provie they lose all sort of objectivity on how they view events that happen to that person. The moment that driver starts to have a bad time people start to reval in it.

Its very sad that it seems the nature of sporting fans that they hate a winner but it seems to be the way. I do end up getting myself all twisted up trying to fight against it too. I did when it was happening to Hamilton and JB, I did when it was happening to Alonso and I did when it happened to Schumacher. Its all a bit pointless really.

Senna had the same treatment but history was quickly rewritten when he was killed. Now everyone you talk to says how they actually really admired Senna. The people who were so angry about Schumacher seemed to have quietened down and saying different things now too.

Maybe to get the respect he deserve for being the best driver in F1 for 4 years Vettel should throw himself off a bridge?

None of this of course takes away from the brilliant job Ricciardo has been doing this year. I'm becoming a bit of a fan and had him in my FF1 team from the start. Its just very sad he's being used by some to beat Vettel over the head rather than being held up as an example of someone who has taken the great oppotunity he worked his way into it.

 

[Titch]

RasputinLives It's a particularly British trait, to build someone up as a super hero and then knock them down. The newspapers do it all the time. Maybe it's a feeling of ..lets trash them, before they let us down. I don't know, but it's always a shame.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives Titch No one likes to see one driver dominate a championship especially if it is not their driver

a dose of his own medicine might put a bit of humility on things

Certainly the whole of Australia right now would be living it up that Danny boy is giving Seb a whipping that he deserves... no doubt painting him as some sort of villain for all the beatings he gave Webber - on track and off track


When F1 is the pinnacle of technology usually it is the car that dominates over a driver's ability. Maybe after a few years if Seb is able to silence his critics like ALonso he might earn a lot more respect if post Red Bull career - he wins in another car against a top teammate

- It happens on MotoGP to a much lesser extent

- Biaggi use to always whinge about Rossi having the best bike - a factory Honda and when he got on one he could not make such an impact

- Rossi whinged that Stoner won on a Ducati because it was the tyres but he could not even win one race when he had two years at it

 

[RasputinLives]

Firstly you talk about him 'learning humility'. Do you know him? Because I can only think you do or you wouldn't know he 'needs' this. It certainly has nothing to do with how good a driver he is.

As for 'proving his worth' by winning in 'another car' against a 'top team mate' and then citing Alonso. There are some fundamental flaws in that.

Firstly Alonso has never beaten a 'top team mate'. Secondly only 4 drivers have won world titles for more than one team in the last 35 years and thirdly once again you are rewriting the rules to suite your view.

The Red Bull was a massively good car but it was by no means this unbeatable self driven knight rider car people make it out to be in fact compared to this seasons Merc its laughable. The fact that people can't see past the car to how the driver in it consistantly put it exactly where it should be, breaking all records in the process is very sad.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives maybe he should go and have a drink with Mark Webber and talk about getting beat all time by his teammate

 

[Il_leone]

.

As for 'proving his worth' by winning in 'another car' against a 'top team mate' and then citing Alonso. There are some fundamental flaws in that. -

Alonso has got Raikkonen as his teammate right - a world champion and a guy who finished in the top 3 the last 2 seasons and looks like ALonso will beat him hands down that is not a flaw


Firstly Alonso has never beaten a 'top team mate' - he rewrite that soon. I won't use the Massa argument because that has been discussed many times

. Secondly only 4 drivers have won world titles for more than one team in the last 35 years and thirdly once again you are rewriting the rules to suite your view.

That was a view directed when Hamilton was winning in a Mclaren and not by me

The Red Bull was a massively good car but it was by no means this unbeatable self driven knight rider car people make it out to be in fact compared to this seasons Merc its laughable. The fact that people can't see past the car to how the driver in it consistantly put it exactly where it should be, breaking all records in the process is very sad.[/QUOTE]

That was the same criticism aimed at Damon Hill until he proved after he left Williams just how good he was and how rubbish they were

Now if Red Bull zoom down the wrong way in the pit lane without Vettel then I will hold my hand up to that he did make a difference

 

[cider_and_toast]

Here's my take on the situation.

Have you ever conducted an experiment where you put one hand (let's say your left hand) in a bowl of hot water and your other hand in a bowl of cold water. Now take both hands and put them in a bowl of lukewarm water. The hand that was once in the cold water will feel really hot in the lukewarm and the hand that was in the hot will now feel really cold in the lukewarm.

What am I going on about?

Well it's the same as Vettel and Ricciardo. Last year Vettel had a great car, with a great engine, trimmed out to the way he wanted to drive it. Blown exhaust diffuser and all. Ricciardo in the Torro Rosso had a car nowhere near as good and as we all remember, there was a pretty strong debate about whether he was worthy of a RBR seat at all. Now this season, Ricciardo is taking advantage of a car that to him is miles better than he had before while Seb is struggling with a car that is nowhere near as good.

 

[Il_leone]

Christian Horner suggests Seb deserves a break but this break happens every year . Tough luck

 

[Mephistopheles]

I actually don't find it amazing at all that some people only credit Sebs four championships by virtue of him having the best car and those same people are extremely careful not to mention how vastly superior this this years Mercedes is and give all the credit to the drivers the Merc is far more superior than the Red Bull has ever been...

 

[ExtremeNinja]

For the umpteenth time, ?I will remind you all that ?I never rated Vettel even before he was winning, I never rated him when he startted winning, I never rated him when he continued to win, I never rated him when he stopped winning and I don't rate him now he is being thrashed by Ricciardo. I haven't ever and do not currently rate Vettel. Take this in perspective, all drivers in F1 are world class and therefore Vettel is world class. He would be a great card to have in top trumps but there are many other drivers I would put in my racing car.