Off Throttle Diffuser Ban is GO for Silverstone. So who will be on pole ?

[Josh]

I have to admit I'm not too much into the technical side of F1, but I'm just wondering why things like the double diffuser and this off the throttle thing is such a big deal? Technical innovations were always a huge part of F1, weren't they? So is this against the rules, or is it just for commercial purposes?

If anyone could explain this, thanks, because right now I'm a bit confused as to why this needs to be banned.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...statement that he usually was ahead of Vettel before the off-throttle trick after Silverstone is just evidently not true. Not in 2010 and certainly not in 2009...What the effect of the EBD ban will be on those cars,I don’t have a clue,but I do know that Vettel is an excellent qualifier and Webber...has been beaten by him in most races.
The 2 previous seasons and 7 races into this one provide ample statistical evidence to back that up.

Indeed.

Further, the EBD may have less to do with Vettel's qualifying advantage over Webber this year than Vettel using DRS earlier out of high speed bends than Webber and Webber having a harder time adjusting to the Pirellis in relation to Vettel. Vettel's been seen opening up DRS earlier at Malaysia and Turkey...and Horner confirmed that part of the qually gap (Vettel to Webber) earlier in 2011 had been their relative adaptation to Pirellis.

 

[Fenderman]

Since Seb' and Mark are driving identical cars (apart from idiosyncracies in their chosen set-ups) the EBD has nothing to do with differences in their (Mark & Seb's) performance. Yes, adapting to the tyres may reflect differences in driving style but that's not the discussion here. The question is whether or not the rule change will disadvantage some teams rather than others and thus which driver will be on pole. We can speculate until the Earth freezes over but we won't know until Silverstone. I suspect the engineers will have been working very hard to minimise any losses resulting from the reg's change and we will see play resumed just where we left off last time out.

 

[KekeTheKing]

I have to admit I'm not too much into the technical side of F1, but I'm just wondering why things like the double diffuser and this off the throttle thing is such a big deal?

I think part of it is that it's taking some of the skill out out of driving.

If the exhaust is constantly blowing on the floor and the diffuser during a Qualifying lap, whether you're on the throttle or not, the car will become much easier to drive. This goes hand in hand with Ray's post above. If the car is glued to the circuit, you can open up that DRS flap as early as you want.

 

[Slyboogy]

I think Williams might have a big gain....I don't know why I just picked a team that seems to be struggling for their standards.

I heard someone also say here that Mercedes don't run the EBD? If that's true then their qualifying performances have not been at all bad, as in qualifying is where they excel as they drop back from their grid positions during the race.

I don't know how much teams gain from the engine mapping, I really like to know, but I think it's just a few tenths, if so Red Bull will still be strong in qualifying I believe

As for who will be on pole at Silverstone, well the past 2 years it's been a Red Bull track, Vettel and Webber usually are strong here too...

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I heard someone also say here that Mercedes don't run the EBD?

Hmm. I've heard the opposite. I read that Mercedes - and Renault - are going to get hit harder than most of the other teams on this front.

If true, I'd expect Massa to be able to qualify next to Alonso because their 2 or 3 tenths gap usually translates into Rosberg or Schumacher or Petrov separating the Ferrari drivers on the grid.

 

[FB]

Back in March Mercedes were copying the Renault front exit exhaust system but I can't find any updates on F1.com to show any other changes.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2011/0/841.html

 

[Slyboogy]

Yeah I remember that too, they were meant to bring it in early in the season, don't think they ever did...think McLaren where going to adopt that exhaust system too, but it wasn't as confirmed as Mercedes, can't be sure though

 

[MCLS]

It'll certainly mean that there will be a lot of running in practice at Silverstone, that'll be good for the fans

 

[teabagyokel]

The Red Bull Magic Boost Button posts have been moved into their own thread. This discussion is who will the EBD ban affect come the British Grand Prix. Please stick to that in this thread please.

 

[Slyboogy]

Adrain Newey seems to think Red Bull will get hampered a lot by the reduction of exhaust gases and McLaren and Ferrari will gain from it.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158396388

Mind games?

 

[Brogan]

Red Bull were using cold blowing at Valencia.
Ferrari and McLaren were using hot blowing.

Cold blowing gives less performance than hot blowing.

I think Red Bull will actually have a bigger gap at Silverstone.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Red Bull were using cold blowing at Valencia.
Ferrari and McLaren were using hot blowing.

Cold blowing gives less performance than hot blowing.

I think Red Bull will actually have a bigger gap at Silverstone.

 

[Slyboogy]

I thought that, but I still found his comments "interesting"

 

[ExtremeNinja]

There are two things that I think may prove to be critical in the McLaren vs Red Bull effect from the regulation change.

1. Red Bulls high rake configuration is designed around the blown diffuser. If they have to change their rake, then this is going to have an effect on the entire cars aerodynamics.

2. McLaren's side pods are designed to channel more air to the rear floor. When the EBD is no more will McLaren be left with more rear downforce than it's competitors?

if the above both prove to be true, will this compounded effect be a leveller? I'm no aerodynamicist, but I have had this on my mind for a long time and am intrigued to see if I'm on the money.

Am I talking smack? I guess we won't know until Silverstone but I'd love to know if anyone with more technical knowledge can give an Appraisal of these theories.

 

[Fenderman]

Red Bull were using cold blowing at Valencia.
Ferrari and McLaren were using hot blowing.

Cold blowing gives less performance than hot blowing.

I think Red Bull will actually have a bigger gap at Silverstone.

Unusually for the Official Formula 1 website there is no mention of this on the tech news page, only this:

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2011/860/875.html

I had heard about it but was it actually confirmed that RBR were only "cold blowing" at Valencia?

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Forgot to mention Torro Rosso's double floor as well. Surely this is going to give them a boost over the teams that they are fighting in the midfield.

 

[Brogan]

I had heard about it but was it actually confirmed that RBR were only "cold blowing" at Valencia?

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/the-2011-season.2115/page-14#post-61074

 

[Fenderman]

Thanks for the reminder Bro'. that's where I "heard" about it. Forgot! Maybe I should have mentioned medium term memory deficit in that thread about ageing

Edit: Ooh, a new acronym! MTMD.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/the-2011-season.2115/page-14#post-61074

So if cold blowing does not involve burning fuel, then surely it is "green". Good job they are not banning only those who are hot blowing or we would see Red Bulls lapping the entire field twice in a race.