Off Throttle Diffuser Ban is GO for Silverstone. So who will be on pole ?

[tranquility2k9]

I think that Webber might close the gap to Vettel in qualifying as he was better than Vettel in 2010 before Red Bull started using the off-throttle engine maps. Supposedly, Webber was more comfertable with an unstable rear end than Vettel. When RB introduced the off-throttle trick after Silverstone in 2010, Vettel was always ahead, whereas Webber was usually ahead in qualifying before that.

 

[Slyboogy]

I think that Webber might close the gap to Vettel in qualifying as he was better than Vettel in 2010 before Red Bull started using the off-throttle engine maps. Supposedly, Webber was more comfertable with an unstable rear end than Vettel. When RB introduced the off-throttle trick after Silverstone in 2010, Vettel was always ahead, whereas Webber was usually ahead in qualifying before that.

Didn't Vettel get 10 poles and Webber only 5?

 

[gethinceri]

Surely it'll be the only team that's been able to develop their car in the knowledge that theirs was the only one not hampered by the wasteful millstone of EBD, it can only be HRT, they're 7 races ahead of the rest!!

 

[Slyboogy]

Surely it'll be the only team that's been able to develop their car in the knowledge that theirs was the only one not hampered by the wasteful millstone of EBD, it can only be HRT, they're 7 races ahead of the rest!!

And yet they are somehow going to gain 5 seconds on the rest?

 

[gethinceri]

Yeah, no problem. The weather will be really hot, just like where they're from - Spain. They have two very experienced racers at the wheel, Narain and 'Tonio started in F1 in 2005 so you know they have what it takes. They will have concentrated on traditional aero rather than this exhaust nonsense, at a high speed circuit like Silverstone they'll romp it.

 

[Slyboogy]

Hm will they though? Last year this is the track where their season changed, it's where all the problems and driver changes started...their two experienced racers must be looking over their shoulders at every race weekend.

I have been impressed by them, I think they will be ahead of Virgin and close to Lotus in Silverstone, although their second driver needs changing....

It will be interesting to see how HRT will do, but one thing that puzzles me, is that I thought Cosworth couldn't do this engine mapping system, then how do Williams and Virgin have such a system?

 

[gethinceri]

I'll stop now, you're taking me seriously.

 

[Slyboogy]

I'll stop now, you're taking me seriously.

And that's where I fooled you.

 

[gethinceri]

 

[RevMaxPower]

Sebastian Vettel, so wish it to be Lewis though.

 

[Jru]

Probably Vettel but I went Alonso as the dark horse. The Ferrari has been getting faster despite issues with certain tyres, and if, and that is a big season defining if, if the EBD ban affects red bull as much as most of us hope it does (Sorry RB fans).

 

[tranquility2k9]

Didn't Vettel get 10 poles and Webber only 5?

Did you even bother to read what I said?

I said:- "When RB introduced the off-throttle trick after Silverstone in 2010, Vettel was always ahead, whereas Webber was usually ahead in qualifying before that."

If you look at qualifying during and before Silverstone 2010 Webber was at least a match if not ahead of Vettel, whereas from Hockenheim onwards, I can't remember Webber out-qualifying Vettel once. He certainly did better in qualifying before Red Bull introduced off-throttle exhausts. This was noted by Andrew Benson, Mark Hughes and several other analysts. So im talking sense I think?

I don't see how you quoting Vettel having 10 poles and Webber 5, has any relevance to what I said. I'm on about team mate vs team mate based on the car configuration and setup, not a competition to see who had most poles.

 

[Slyboogy]

The first few times I read it, the last part didn't seem to make much sense for some reason it does a bit now

 

[Harry]

Its hard to get details on who is actually using off-throttle/hot blown diffusers, but from what I understand, the teams with the most aggressive or effective use of it are RBR & Renault. And it sounds like McLaren and Ferrari also use it but their 'over the diffuser' system is not as strong in effect. I don't think the others have it? DC mentioned on the coverage of the last race that Mercedes don't have it.

If that's correct the team with the most to gain in terms of single lap pace might be Mercedes (if you can call the others slowing down a "gain"), who are the best of the rest without hot blowing. I don't think it will totally bridge the performance gap, but it has to help.

McLaren should be the big beneficiaries in the race, as RBR will no longer be able to use the Hot-blowing in short bursts when they need the performance gain - eg safety car restarts. Probably one of the factors that allowed SV to gap the field at every restart.

I still think the RBR will continue to dominate qualifying as long as DRS is free. They are able to open it in places the other teams can't, which was most evident in Turkey. And that's in full throttle conditions which the hot-blown ban won't affect.

 

[jez101]

I think the off the throttle (OTT) blowing is most important when doing big stops, especially while also turning in. There aren't that many of them at Silverstone, so I have voted for Vettel to continue on his merry way towards his second WDC.

 

[sobriety]

I think that Webber might close the gap to Vettel in qualifying as he was better than Vettel in 2010 before Red Bull started using the off-throttle engine maps. Supposedly, Webber was more comfertable with an unstable rear end than Vettel. When RB introduced the off-throttle trick after Silverstone in 2010, Vettel was always ahead, whereas Webber was usually ahead in qualifying before that.

I've gone for Webber for the same reason.

 

[ecclestoned]

Did you even bother to read what I said?

I said:- "When RB introduced the off-throttle trick after Silverstone in 2010, Vettel was always ahead, whereas Webber was usually ahead in qualifying before that."
...

Well, I also bothered to read what you said.
But I’m less impressed with what you write than you seem to be.

In 2010 Vettel scored 5 poles in the 10 races preceding Hockenheim and Webber 4.
Mark beat him in Malaysia because his gamble with the intermediates paid off,and in Turkey, where Vettel suffered a broken anti roll bar in Q3.
In Spain and Monaco,Mark was really on a roll and was untouchable,but your statement that he usually was ahead of Vettel before the off-throttle trick after Silverstone is just evidently not true.
Not in 2010 and certainly not in 2009,where Vettel outqualified Webber 15-2 and nobody was blowing his diffuser.

What the effect of the EBD ban will be on those cars,I don’t have a clue,but I do know that Vettel is an excellent qualifier and Webber,who himself has always been lauded for his qualfying skills,has been beaten by him in most races.
The 2 previous seasons and 7 races into this one provide ample statistical evidence to back that up.

 

[Slyboogy]

Well, I also bothered to read what you said.
But I’m less impressed with what you write than you seem to be.

In 2010 Vettel scored 5 poles in the 10 races preceding Hockenheim and Webber 4.
Mark beat him in Malaysia because his gamble with the intermediates paid off,and in Turkey, where Vettel suffered a broken anti roll bar in Q3.
In Spain and Monaco,Mark was really on a roll and was untouchable,but your statement that he usually was ahead of Vettel before the off-throttle trick after Silverstone is just evidently not true.
Not in 2010 and certainly not in 2009,where Vettel outqualified Webber 15-2 and nobody was blowing his diffuser.

What the effect of the EBD ban will be on those cars,I don’t have a clue,but I do know that Vettel is an excellent qualifier and Webber,who himself has always been lauded for his qualfying skills,has been beaten by him in most races.
The 2 previous seasons and 7 races into this one provide ample statistical evidence to back that up.

I was going to write that as a reply earlier, but I just could not be bothered

 

[sportsman]

Scarbs view.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

McLaren's innovative sidepods are specially designed to direct airflow to the rear floor. This could be thier golden bullet once this engine mapping and retarded throttle business is sorted out. I am hopeful for a McLaren on pole.