Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests

I have a feeling getting rid of Ross will be very detrimental to the team. It's sad to see how this is playing out, especially as they're finally starting to make progress.
 
If that happens I won't like Mercedes so much. That's not a nice way to behave. That's not pulling together as a team. Brawn's a good team principal and Mercedes need stability. They're way up on last year why the games? Lets hope this isn't the case.
 
Mephistopheles this isn't just a team threatening to pull out, it is an engine constructor with long standing and with the loss of Cosworth and even with the re-introduction of Honda, this puts the FIA in the position of changing the rules to account for the current lack of engine providers. If Merc pull out as well they will face the potential of moving more and more towards a spec series with a single engine and a single tyre supplier. The FIA and FoM know that this is not what the current F1 spectator base really wants and they face large losses of revenue if it moves that way.

Plus the threat of Merc pulling out risks alienating one of their largest european followings, namely the Germans. The Germans are a fiercely loyal people and if the sport "insults" the only German company involved to the point they pull out I can see a large loss of the fanbase...
 
racecub said:
If that happens I won't like Mercedes so much. That's not a nice way to behave. That's not pulling together as a team. Brawn's a good team principal and Mercedes need stability. They're way up on last year why the games? Lets hope this isn't the case.
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There's no "pulling together as a team" in politics, which is exactly what this is (unfortunately). Everything has been set up very nicely for Brawn to be the scapegoat should it be necessary.
 
I know this canis but the FIA cannot be seen to have given in to blackmail I have no idea what the outcome will be other than it will probably be a very neat piece of political maneuvering on both sides and the only way I can see it working is for scapegoats to take that blame.

My bet is the scapegoats will be

Ross Brawn, Paul Hembery and Charlie Whiting...
 
What, like Renault did you mean?
Or like Ferrari have done since before they even entered the sport?

Mercedes and Pirelli are certainly not the first to make threats about leaving.
 
Everyone knows that FIA used to stand for Ferrari International Assistance I'm not sure it does now. and Renault got their comeuppance when Flavio went too far...

The difference today is the internet, the punters have a lot more information than they used to and with that information a lot more say in terms of making a decision on whether to watch F1 or not as do the sponsors....
 
Although instigated by the FIA the Independent Tribunal is supposed to be just that, independent of the FIA. However, a look at the members list and their affiliations shows that in reality none of them are totally unconnected with the FIA and/or motor sport.
 
Latest updates:

FIA: 'There is very little factual dispute about this case. We know when the test took place, where it took place and with what cars and drivers it took place.'

According to Craig Slater, they have since moved on to 'undermine' what was expected to be a central tenant of Mercedes' defence.

Lead counsel for the FIA, Mark Howard, said that "there was some communication between Mercedes and the FIA, there was no outlining of when the test would happen or under what terms.'

In essence, the FIA remain adamant that the test was not ratified.
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Informal word from the hearing is that Pirelli are also in the dock over Testgate as their own contract with the FIA stipulates that they are also bound to F1's rules, in effect meaning that in that regard there is no way round the regs for them either.

It hadn't been clear thus far what exactly F1's tyre supplier were being charged with given they are not a 'competitor' in the championship like Mercedes.
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FIA open up by insisting there was only informal contact with Mercedes and they did not approve the test.
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The 'informal' contact between Mercedes and Charlie Whiting, in which the team requested permission to take part in the test, took place in the form of a telephone call.

Whiting then took advice from the FIA's legal department who expressed the opinion that their participation could be allowed IF all the other teams were copied in to provide their acquisence and had an equal opportunity to test.

As they were not, the FIA continues to maintain that the test was illegal and the conditions set out by Whiting were not met'.
Click to expand
 
It's not looking good for Mercedes at all.

"The FIA’s QC has point-by-point been actually disapproving Mercedes’ excuses. Mercedes’ excuse number one was that they had permission via an informal communication with the FIA’s Race Director Charlie Whiting, but the FIA said that permission, even if it was to be given, was conditional on the approval of all the other teams – and that approval was never sought nor given. So that’s Mercedes excuse number one supposedly done away with.
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"Mercedes’ excuse number two was that they didn’t learn anything from the test that would be useful or beneficial from making Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg’s cars go quicker on track. To that the FIA say ‘I’m afraid you can’t give that excuse because even if you didn’t learn anything, you’re learning something, because in a way there’s nothing you need to change on the car’. So even by not learning anything in a way you are learning something.
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This is pathetic on Mercedes' part.
Trying to claim that because they didn't learn anything it was OK?

If this is the strength of their defence they are screwed.

"What the FIA have also been doing is setting out the case against Mercedes and Pirelli in terms of Article 151c - and that is acting in a way that is prejudicial to the interests of competition. Now that's the important thing. That's the rule, that if it's proved they have broken, carries the big penalties. That carries the race bans, the removal of all constructors' points or even the exclusion from the FIA World Championship itself.
Click to expand

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...rcedes-on-opening-morning-of-testgate-hearing
 
Mercedes have started their defence.

Mercedes have acknowledged they did have access to telemetry during the test but that was ‘immaterial’ because the data was essential to the safe running of the car.
Click to expand
 
The issue is nothing to do with running the 2013 car or using the current drivers really, then. The issue is that official confirmation from the FIA wasn't given and that all teams weren't asked. I see the first point as a problem for both Mercedes and Pirelli but the second point as an issue for Pirelli only. However, I don't see how the FIA can punish Pirelli, apart from a fine maybe, unless they are confident that they could find a different supplier for 2014, so Mercedes are likely to be the scape goat.
 

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