Mercedes and Ferrari in 'secret' Pirelli tyre tests

[Mephistopheles]

It all depends on what exactly he was asked, if Ross said to him, Charlie we are going to carry out a test, it's okay we have permission from FIA and we are just keeping you informed.

Charlie may have replied, As long as you have permission then go ahead.

Anyway as I understand it, all this asking was done by email and so there must be a paper trail, so exactly who said what to whom and exactly who did or did not give permission will all be made clear after the hearing...

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

...or hopefully during it.

 

[teabagyokel]

Maybe they're using Whiting as a conveniently lenient FIA staffer, in order to attempt a defence of "we asked the FIA."

 

[KekeTheKing]

It's as foolhardy for Charlie to even feign authority on this matter as it was for Mercedes to respect his reply.

 

[Blog Zbod]

The whole affair reminds me of a child engaged in "parent shopping." They're going to do what they're going to do, regardless, they're just looking for opportunity to lay off the blame if it all goes pear-shaped. So if Mum says no, go ask Da. Mercedes knew the testing was dodgy business, else they wouldn't have approached the FIA for clarification to begin with. Ferrari and Red Bull both dismissed the offer from Pirelli out of hand because they were convinced from the outset it was extra-legal.

Lauda and Braun both are quite smug that they have an ace up their sleeve -- rumoured to be some letter of authorisation from some key FIA official -- but I'm not inclined to believe that fact will convince the tribunal to set aside what seems to me a pretty clear-cut rule, regardless of anything that might be in Pirelli's contract.

If they do punish Mercedes, that necessarily puts Pirelli in a bad light for hosting the event, which could provoke them into taking their toys and going home. Or might be the straw that breaks the backs of the FIA and the FOTA so they don't invite them back. If they don't punish Mercedes, they're opening a Pandora's box because all the other teams then will claim they by rights are entitled to the same 1000 km of testing.

There's been more than a couple of pundits who're opining that heads have got to roll, either within Mercedes of the FIA ...or both.

 

[racecub]

Pirelli would be happy to offer other teams to come and test they' re desperate for help with testing. They've already said anyone who wants to test can, so I don think there'd be an issue there.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Little background on the "Tribunal"

The International Tribunal itself consists of 12 members, elected by the FIA General Assembly on three-year terms, along with a President and Vice-President but for each individual disciplinary hearing the President of the IT appoints a panel consisting of a minimum of three members to rule on the matter, one of whom is appointed the President of the Hearing. Members with the same nationality as one of the main parties in the case are excluded from consideration.

Here are the esteemed 12;

President: Mr Edwin Glasgow (United Kingdom)

Vice-President: Mr Laurent Anselmi (Monaco)
Members




ANSELMI, Laurent - Monaco

BOLLECKER, Didier - France

GLASGOW, Edwin - United Kingdom

HARRIS, Chris - USA

LA COGNATA, Riccardo - Italy

LEROY, Jean-Christophe - France

MARTENS, Dirk-Reiner - Germany

MARTIN, Gérard - Belgium


RAEDERSDORF, Patrick - Switzerland

RIVKIN, David - USA


SCOTT ANDREWS, Anthony - United Kingdom

WÜNSCH, Waltraud - Germany

From the by-laws we know that Wunsch, Andrews, Martens, La Cognata, Glasgow, and Anselmi will not be ruling on this case, so that leaves Two Frenchmen, Two Americans, a Swiss, and a Belgian that hold the fate of Mercedes F1 in their hands.

Using our friend Google, I've learned that Mr. Rivkin was named "Global Lawyer of the Year" by some publication, largely due to the fact that he won a 2.3 BILLION dollar judgement for Occidental Petroleum vs the country of Ecuador.

The other American, Chris Harris

became 
a 
lawyer 
in 
1970 
and 
since 
then 
has 
served 
as 
a 
Special 
Courts 
Martial

Military
 Judge 
and 
Court 
Appointed
 Special 
Master. 

He 
has 
litigated
 in 
Criminal 
and 
Civil 
Courts

for 
over 
40 
years. 

He 
is 
also 
one 
of 
the 
founding 
members 
of 
the 
Grand 
American 
Road 
Racing
 Association 
and 
is 
a 
Director 
of 
ACCUS,
a 
Director
of 
International
 Speedway 
Corporation 
since
 1984 
and 
serves 
on 
the 
Managing 
Board
 of 
AMA
Pro
Racing, 
the
 professional 
motorcycle 
racing 
sanctioning 
body 
in 
the 
US.

 

[racecub]

Well Pirelli are An American company so doesn't that rule the American ones out?


P.S when do we get to hear what's happened?

 

[Mephistopheles]

I thought Pirelli were an Italian company, founded in Milan, 1872....

 

[Bill Boddy]

I take it that the President will be judge and chief prosecutor a la MM. It makes decisions so much easier.

 

[Fenderman]

Pirelli is an essentially Italian company based in Milan, albeit with multinational status It has been listed on Milan Stock Exchange since 1922 and its current board of directors are all Italian nationals. Founded by Giovanni Battista Pirelli, family interest on the board still has a presence with Alberto Pirelli who is Deputy Chairman. He is also a member of the Board of Directors of Automobile Club of Milano and of Sodalitas.

 

[racecub]

Ah sorry, my mistake. Not sure where I got that from.

 

[KekeTheKing]

I take it that the President will be judge and chief prosecutor a la MM.

The Tribunal President will appoint a 3-6 member panel, who will then elect a "Panel President". It will culminate in a majority vote.

 

[Fenderman]

Ah sorry, my mistake. Not sure where I got that from.

You don't owe anyone an apology since I assume you are only human like the rest of us . Probably due to one of their biggest plants being in the US I suspect.

 

[canis]

And as Merc are German and not British then the Germans will be ruled out and not the British members. I think you will find it doesn't matter the nationality of who represents them, but the nationality of the team, otherwise teams will play games to get the panel they want by choosing different representatives to get members removed from the panel for their hearing...

 

[KekeTheKing]

You're absolutely right that it should not matter canis, but I would expect the British representative to be left off the panel anyway. I've already ruled out the Germans, the Italians, and I expect the Brits to be excluded as well, the Tribunal President by necessity.

I really hope I wake up tomorrow morning to find this whole thing wrapped up in a nice tidy package so we can get back to racing after another 3 week hiatus.

 

[Fenderman]

IMHO I doubt that members of the IT panel will be excluded on the grounds of nationality. The sport is international as is the intricate web of connections panel members will undoubtedly have and those of the accused parties. In theory the members should have been selected who have no direct or indirect financial, personal or political connections with the parties involved. The IT is supposed to be independent but I suspect the selection process must have been extremely challenging. It remains to be seen just how impartial the bench will actually be.

 

[racecub]

I just read this
http://gp-url.com/15joWly
Wolf and Lauda not going to Paris. I hope it's not in case the result is bad and then Brawn has to take the rap? I really hope it's not that.

 

[Blog Zbod]

...I hope it's not in case the result is bad and then Brawn has to take the rap? I really hope it's not that.

If a penalty any more severe than a mild rebuke is meted out, I think that is a given. Sacking Ross kills two birds with one stone. It serves as an act of contrition, their mea culpa, and it solves Toto Wolff's problem of what to do with his superfluous technical director, which has hounded him ever since he put Paddy Lowe on staff.

And there are rumours that Brawn and Hembery will be the sacrificial lambs, should it come to that.

But there also are reports that Mercedes' shareholders are calling for them to withdraw from the sport if they are punished over this.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I don't believe the FIA could possibly bow to threats of Merc leaving when making their decision that would open the floodgates for any team to do exactly what they wanted and sod the rules, and would make the FIA's position of ruling the sport untenable...