McLaren & McLaren Drivers Were Trumped By Vettel

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Going into this weekend there was genuine talk of a McLaren victory at Monaco, a place where they'd won an amazing 14 times.

McLarens, having sorted-out their two race worth of upgrades, were the fastest cars in the Monaco-like Sector 3 in Spain ... and were barely beaten by Vettel who soaked up the pressure from Hamilton inspite of an intermittent KERS.

McLaren's race pace was there for all to see in Spain...and they have the best KERS hybrid in F1 .

Further, Hamilton was in supreme form in Q1 and Q2 and he looked like he could take Pole at Monaco.

Then it all started to unravell...

* * * * *

As per my thread here yesterday, Hamilton's McLaren race team as well as Lewis himself left their Q3 run way too late ... and then Lewis himself decided to abort his flying lap when he could easily have put in a lap time good enough for at least 4th on the grid.

[Vettel had stuck in a awsome lap, inspite of over-coming traffic of his own.]

Hamilton, meanwhile, decided to abort his flyer in the hope of a clear road eventhough there's almost no such thing at Monaco.

So...Mclaren's/Lewis' joint error of not putting in a banker was compounded by Lewis not completing that flyer.

[M Brundle during today's BBC telecast echoed what I wrote here yesterday: Massa really wasn't in his way on that Q3 Flyer of Hamilton's.]

Scratch, then, Hamilton's race win chances right there and then.

Hamilton was never going to be on the cards to win after posting 7th fastest time, which became 9th on the grid for chicane-cutting.

Some would say the above is hindsight...but I wrote in that thread that Hamilton had to get past Schumacher, Rosberg, Webber, Alonso, Vettel...a rather tough group to pass. And I didn't even mention Massa or Button!

* * * * *

This left it up to Button to take victory...but "The Button Myth" - the one about Jenson being the 'best Tyre manager' in F1 - went up in tyre smoke in Monte Carlo when he ate away his Super-Softs and had to make THREE stops while Vettel had the confidence in himself and his ability to manage his singular set of Softs for what he imagined would have to be an unheard of 60+ laps!

Not only did Vettel manage his tyres much, much better than Button...but he had to over-come a pit crew error that cost him 4 or 5 extra seconds...and then had to manage his rubber under the immense pressure of a genuine Predator like Alonso on significantly newer Super-Softs! For lap after lap!

AND...it was HIS call!

It was Vettel's own call to go all the way.

Vettel wanted the win...and he took the risk and had the confidence in himself to make it happen.

It was "A Champion's Drive"!
 

gethinceri

Lance Stroll Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
Ray, I have to disagree. Button was done by the safety car. He had the tyres to run until the end while still having grip, commentators were discussing the approaching "grip cliff" when Hamilton's slowing down to avoid Sutil caused the Toro Rosso to rear end him. Vettel and Alonso were unlikely to have both kept him off until the chequer.
Maybe it was Vettel's call, but if Petrov hadn't hit the wall and he'd lost the race to Alonso or Button it would've been described the wrong call by many.
A pleasure to lock horns with you (again)! ;)
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
To expand on my rather short response, McLaren had the opportunity to win this race several times, and they threw it away and were undone by bad timing and incidents.

I'm not denying that Vettel drove well, first to get pole and then to hang on for the win, but if Hamilton had been sent out in Q3 when Button was, then the whole race would have been entirely different.

There was also some bad/good timing and luck involved with safety cars and red flags.
 
Yes, Hamilton should have been sent out earlier in Q1. (I say so in my thread). That's partly McLaren's fault...but it's also Hamilton's job to think about getting banker laps and he should know that grid position and track position is everything at Monaco. So it was also partly Hamilton's fault.

In addition, Hamilton should also have completed that initial Flyer, instead of waving to Felipe'. Martin Brundle confirmed today that Massa really wasn't in Hamilton's way in Q3.

Lastly, Vettel did a way better job of managing tyres than Button...and that is why he beat Button today.

Ray, I have to disagree. Button was done by the safety car. He had the tyres to run until the end while still having grip, commentators were discussing the approaching "grip cliff"


Why did Button need THREE stops?

Vettel was brilliant. Brilliant in Q3 and brilliant in the race.

This rubbish of "Falling Of A Cliff" is pure gibberish because Vettel drove accordingly.

Vettel drove sparingly...mindfully...in an effort to save his tyres...in an effort to pull off what he'd already decided in his mind.

Perhaps Red Bull are smarter than McLaren and did their homework on Pirellis for Monaco better than the Woking team?

Anyone thought of that?
 

gethinceri

Lance Stroll Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
Button needed three stops to give him the strategy that meant (without a safety car and subsequent red flag) he stood the greatest chance of winning the race.
I have not said that Vettel was not brilliant.
Vettel changed his tyres for the restart of the race, he may have been staring into the depths of the grip abyss when the Petrov accident occurred.
Vettel did drive sparingly, because he knew his tyres were close to the edge.
Of course I have considered that Red Bull did their homework on Pirellis for Monaco better than the Woking team and have decided that they won by a combination of many things including an unfortunate incident causing a safety car and subsequent red flag allowing new rubber and no chance of DRS use for 2 (i think) of the final 5 racing laps.
 
Because Button needed three stops to give him the strategy that meant (without a safety car and subsequent red flag) he stood the greatest chance of winning the race.

I have not said that Vettel was not brilliant.

Vettel changed his tyres for the restart of the race, he may have been staring into the depths of the grip abyss when the Petrov accident occurred.

Vettel did drive sparingly, because he knew his tyres were close to the edge.

Of course I have considered that Red Bull did their homework on Pirellis for Monaco better than the Woking team and have decided that they won by a combination of many things including an unfortunate incident causing a safety car and subsequent red flag allowing new rubber and no chance of DRS use for 2 (i think) of the final 5 racing laps.

With all due respect to you, Button needed three stops because he ate up his tyres and needed a third stop.

With all due respect, perhaps Button's hot-and-cold at "Tyre Management" and, perhaps, Vettel's just the superior tyre manager!

Button was actually in the Pound Seats following Red Bulls botched pitstop for Vettel...But he lost the race.

He lost it because Vettel's the superior tyre manager!

But Button fans won't want to admit that, I imagine.

Also, this idea that Vettel would have 'fallen off a cliff' is probably McLaren talk because McLaren didn't do their homework as well as Red Bull did.

Red Bull's homework would have included knowing that Vettel is very good at managing Pirellis and is better at it than Webber, at the very least!

Further, how many umpteen laps did Fernado have use of his DRS? It's not like as if Fernando didn't get PLENTY of opportunity to use DRS, especially while his tyres were at their best.

Remember, every lap was taking life out of Fernando's tyres too. It's not as if only Vettel's tyres were being used.

Alonso was also using up his tyres...and they were softer than Vettel's...and would have been degrading at a higher rate than Vettel's harder compound.

Lastly, with respect to Red Flags and Button...I doubt Alonso was going to let Button sailing by, 6 extra laps or no 6 extra laps.

Alonso had his hands full with Button, not just Vettel ahead...and Alonso wasn't just going to let Button by to take 2nd.

No way.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I believe Alonso had the harder of the tyre compounds in the second stint while chasing down Vettel, not the super softs. Even then his tyres were about to go aswell, just as Button's were, since Button was on the softer but more degradable tyre.
 
I believe Alonso had the harder of the tyre compounds in the second stint while chasing down Vettel, not the super softs. Even then his tyres were about to go aswell, just as Button's were, since Button was on the softer but more degradable tyre.

Alonso actually did three stints (before the Red Flag).

He boxed twice (before the race was suspended).

Alonso stops were:

Lap 17 (he changed to Softs - the slower tyre, to get them out of the way)

Lap 34 (he changed to Super-Softs - the faster tyre; known to go at least 40 laps, even more on lessening fuel loads)

So, he was closing in on Vettel during his third stint...on the faster Super-Softs.

They then all changed on the Red Flag Grid.

Cheers.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Alonso actually did three stints (before the Red Flag).

He boxed twice (before the race was suspended).

Alonso stops were:

Lap 17 (he changed to Softs - the slower tyre, to get them out of the way)

Lap 34 (he changed to Super-Softs - the faster tyre; known to go at least 40 laps, even more on lessening fuel loads)

So, he was closing in on Vettel during his third stint...on the faster Super-Softs.

They then all changed on the Red Flag Grid.

Cheers.

Can anyone else clarify this? Because I am really sure...no offence to you Ray, but your information hasn't always been correct, like Hamilton being 3 tenths down in qualifying when he was actually 6 tenths down.

I am sure I saw him on the Softs with the yellow branding in the second stint...but I can never be sure, plus Ray says different, and...well...my eyes decieve me many times
 
I am sure I saw him on the Softs with the yellow branding in the second stint...but I can never be sure, plus Ray says different, and...well...my eyes decieve me many times

Yes he was on the Softs (Yellows) on his second stint.

Your eyes weren't deceiving you.

BUT he did THREE stints before the Red Flag came out.

Alonso started on Super-Softs (Q3 Tyre)...did 16 laps on Heavy Fuel

Alonso came in on Lap 17 for Softs (the slower tyre) to get them out of the way.

then

Alonso came in on Lap 34 (for the faster Super-Softs).

That is why Alonso was catching Vettel...because he was on the faster Super-Softs which were known to be half a second quicker.

But Alonso was catching at MORE than the known rate of half a second...

...And the reason why he was catching at more than the known rate was because Vettel was intentionally nursing his Softs as, in his (Vettel's) mind, he was going to go 62 laps on them!

Cheers.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Really?? Well that just makes Vettel's win more impressive...I thought Alonso was catching him by that much was due to Vettel being on the softs since lap 16 while Alonso got new fresh ones :s

Sorry Ray, or should I say...sorray :p
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Sorry to burst anyones bubble but Red Bull's tyre strategy for Vettel wasn't. it was a rather fortunate accident. When Vettel pitted the team weren't ready and they fitted, quite by chance, the wrong set of tyres. This was explained by Martin Brundle on the Beeb's Red Button Forum.LOL
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Sorry to burst anyones bubble but Red Bull's tyre strategy for Vettel wasn't. it was a rather fortunate accident. When Vettel pitted the team weren't ready and they fitted, quite by chance, the wrong set of tyres. This was explained by Martin Brundle on the Beeb's Red Button Forum.LOL

That said...Vettel did make it work in his favour you have to say ;)

Vettel 1 Red Bull 0 LOL
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
No. Vettel just kept his head and did a steady drive. McLaren and Button dropped the ball. that's why I voted for Alonso in another thread.:)
 
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