McLaren & McLaren Drivers Were Trumped By Vettel

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Incubus said:
Ray, I'd hate to come across all pedantic, but I notice you totally ignored the correction made by Sly and myself that FA was actually on the same tyres as Vettel in the race's last stint (not including the re-start in the closing stages)? :)
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Meaning? I don't get your meaning, Incubus, my friend. Kindly explain. Alonso was on indeed the Softs on his last, pre-Red Flag stint...but those were on his 2nd set of the Softs which were about 25 laps 'fresher' than Vettel's Softs (which Vettel wa was on since Lap 16).
 
The Pits said:
...it happens that I.believe jb follows the route more than others of alternative strategies that he gets called out more.
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That, my fine friend, is because JB believes the only way to beat Lewis is to go the alternative route. If you're slower, then going the conventional route - or doing what Lewis is doing - isn't going to get you ahead of him (Lewis) by the time the Chequered Flag falls.

So going 'alt' is the only way of beating the faster guy with the same car. Yes? :)
 
Incubus said:
Well we must have been watching a different race then because what I as well as the BBC commentators saw was Alonso on his last stop getting a set of primes on.
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Primes were the Softs at Monaco (Options were the Super-Softs). So we're in agreement. Vettel was on Primes on his 2nd stint...and Alonso was also on Primes on his 3rd Stint. Both on the same tyre, i.e. the Softs, before the Red Flag came out. So...we're in agreement, then, right?
 
Not reallty Ray. You appear to have changed your story. Does this ring a bell? :D

-------------

Lastly, the Soft tyre he was on is the SLOWER tyre...and that's why Alonso was catching Vettel...because Alonso was on the FASTER Super-Softs and on NEWER tyres...AND Vettel was nursing his set for what in his mind would be a 61 lap stint.

:)[/quote]
 
Incubus, Ok well i'm not sure when I wrote that but Alonso was catching Vettel because Alonso was on fresher tyres on his 3rd stint whereas Vettel was nursing the tyres that he would do 62 laps on his 2nd (to the flag) stint. Cheers. ;)

Sly, I just wanted to add in Paul Hembrey's link. That's all. Cheers.
 
Wandering through this forum I was surprised to see this thread was still open and thought I might as well hop in and have "one for the road".

When watching the result of the race I suppose one could state McLaren got trumped by Vettel/RB,but also by Alonso/Ferrari,since he also finished in front of them.
Like many have mentioned ,those last 6 laps might have made a world of difference and then again, maybe not,we’ll never know.

One thing I learned after reading all the posts on this thread is that if someone wants Ray to fix him a soft boiled egg,he’d better ask for a super soft,or he might be served a hard one!LOLSorry Ray,couldn’t resist.

Also,having watched that Vettel pit stop again,I noticed something interesting and something funny.
Contrary to what I first thought there was no panic in the RB hen house,they executed that stop like clockwork,as usual,albeit for 3 tyres and not 4.
The chap with the fresh right front is the one to blame for botching up the stop.
A big bloke, who’s pointing his finger to someone in the distance(I suppose to the back-up guy with a trolly to lift the front of the car)while the used right front was already screwed off.
His focus then turns back on his tyre,he’s having second thoughts,lifts his head again and finally takes the cover off.
He then hops like the easter bunny,almost tripping over the wheel “matress”,hops again and finally delivers his “easter egg”.Very funny,it reminded me of comedy capers.

As for now ,this couch potato critic,like many others I suppose, is getting prepared for the Canadian race,who knows what we’ll get to see there!:twisted:
 
ecclestoned said:
When watching the result of the race I suppose one could state McLaren got trumped by Vettel/RB,but also by Alonso/Ferrari...One thing I learned after reading all the posts on this thread is that if someone wants Ray to fix him a soft boiled egg,he’d better ask for a super soft,or he might be served a hard one!LOLSorry Ray,couldn’t resist...As for now ,this couch potato critic,like many others I suppose, is getting prepared for the Canadian race,who knows what we’ll get to see there!:twisted:
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Haha! Well, ecclestoned, you'll have the advantage of having the superlative commentary by the BBC whereas i'll be at the circuit with only the big screen in front of me. This year, i'll be at a disadvantage because of the tyre stops and who's doing how many. It'll be interesting to watch the race this coming weekend in the flesh. I'm hoping it wont be confusing. I'm sitting at the pit exit so shouldn't miss too much. Too bad Kubica and Raikkonen aren't on the grid. With them on it, it would be the greatest Canadian Grand Prix grid ever. Shame.

PS I said Vettel 'trumped' McLarens/Drivers because RBR actually cost Vettel track position with that comedy you describe and it was Vettel's call to go 62 laps. So it was Vettel - and not RBR - who deserves the trumping credit. I don't think Alonso trumped anyone because Alonso drove a normal race and had a normal two-stop strategy (like the majority of runners and both stops went as normal.) So, whereas I think Vettel "trumped" McLaren, i feel Jenson "gifted" 2nd to Ferrari/Alonso.

Enjoy our Grand Prix. Cheers.
 
Thanks Ray.
Since Canada is too far away for me,I'll have to watch it on the beeb and for live watching stick with my yearly trip to Francorchamps here in Belgium,where you almost always need an umbrella and sunglasses on the same race day.

Enjoy the race.
Cheers mate.
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
PS I said Vettel 'trumped' McLarens/Drivers because RBR actually cost Vettel track position with that comedy you describe and it was Vettel's call to go 62 laps.
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Can you provide concrete evidence that it was Vettel and not the RB strategists who made the call not to pit again?

Strategy is largely a two way process between driver and his team. When the driver succeeds he’s eulogised but unfortunately when he fails the team is blamed.

I suggest you read Vettel's post Monaco interview if you haven't.

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/5/12120.html

"Overall it was a fantastic job from the team, to take risks with me"
 
Quintessentially said:
Can you provide concrete evidence that it was Vettel and not the RB strategists who made the call not to pit again?

Strategy is largely a two way process between driver and his team. When the driver succeeds he’s eulogised but unfortunately when he fails the team is blamed.

I suggest you read Vettel's post Monaco interview if you haven't.

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/5/12120.html

"Overall it was a fantastic job from the team, to take risks with me"
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Well, Horner did say it just after the race on BBC, there was an article on Autosport about Vettel, saying that he was happy that the team stuck with him with the risk.

I am not the kind of guy that will go out my way to dig out an article, but I am sure Ray will find it. :thumbsup:
 
Gentlemen, with all due respect to all, I would ask the following:

If the pitstop had gone as "normal", wouldn't Vettel have kept track position?

Wasn't it more a case of "bad luck" being over-turned by Vettel deciding - at some point - to not give up track position and to, as a result, drive on those tyres in such a way as to go 62 laps on them?

I mean you can't say (on the one hand) that Vettel 'lucked out' with the tyre...but (then on the other hand) not acknowlede that he actually LOST track position because of the delayed pitstop.

Vettel was leading from Pole. He was up 3 seconds on Button in 2nd. He came in to "cover" off Button's pitstop...and would have been scheduled to do the same thing at the next round had he been on the 'right' set on the second stint.

Perhaps if Martin Brundle had a few more hours to think about it, he might also see it that way.

Vettel, in my opinion (and it's opinion, not fact), turned a disadvantage (i.e. losing track postion) into an advantage (i.e. using the longevity of the 'wrong' tyre). But he needed to manage those tyres accordingly. He (and not RBR originally) decided - at some stage - to go the distance and drove within the tyres capability to go 62 laps. Horner confirmed that after the race.
 
RayInTorontoCanada said:
Gentlemen, with all due respect to all, I would ask the following:

If the pitstop had gone as "normal", wouldn't Vettel have kept track position?
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No Ray,he probably wouldn’t.
Vettel lost 2,9 sec.in the stop compared to Button and was led by Jenson by 3,3 sec.when he came out again.
Had he been shoed on the super softs(like Horner says was the initial plan)he might have been out of luck to win this race,since he had to come in again at some point.
 
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