McLaren & McLaren Drivers Were Trumped By Vettel

[Brogan]

Vettel did indeed make it work in his favour but I think the general consensus is it was more by luck than judgement.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Sly,

Vettel started the race on Super-Softs (his Q3 Tyre) because that's what the FIA rule is. You start on the tyre you set your fastest Q3 lap on.

Then:

Vettel stopped on Lap 16...his ONE and ONLY pit stop...for the Softs (the Prime tyre).

It was a botched pitstop, remember?

By getting on the Soft on Lap 16, he fullfilled the FIA requirement of using BOTH compounds.

Ya?

Lastly, the Soft tyre he was on is the SLOWER tyre...and that's why Alonso was catching Vettel...because Alonso was on the FASTER Super-Softs and on NEWER tyres...AND Vettel was nursing his set for what in his mind would be a 61 lap stint.

 

[Slyboogy]

No. Vettel just kept his head and did a steady drive. McLaren and Button dropped the ball. that's why I voted for Alonso in another thread.

But Alonso was in a similar position compared to Button fresher tyres than Vettel, so the top 3 were equal judging by that logic

 

[Slyboogy]

Sly,

Vettel started the race on Super-Softs (his Q3 Tyre) because that's what the FIA rule is. You start on the tyre you set your fastest Q3 lap on.

Then:

Vettel stopped on Lap 16...his ONE and ONLY pit stop...for the Softs (the Prime tyre).

It was a botched pitstop, remember?

By getting on the Soft on Lap 16, he fullfilled the FIA requirement of using BOTH compounds.

Ya?

Lastly, the Soft tyre he was on is the SLOWER tyre...and that's why Alonso was catching Vettel...because Alonso was on the FASTER Super-Softs and on NEWER tyres...AND Vettel was nursing his set for what in his mind would be a 61 lap stint.

Eh...I think one of my posts shows that I UNDERSTAND what happened.

No need to explain it to me in ULTRA layman terms to me

 

[gethinceri]

And relax.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

No. Vettel just kept his head and did a steady drive. McLaren and Button dropped the ball. that's why I voted for Alonso in another thread.

Alonso had faster and fresher tyres and had DRS but still couldn't do anything about Vettel.

Vettel was balsy with his decision. Vettel took the risk he took in order to win the race. Vettel's pitstop was botched up by his team too...so he had to over-come that disadvantage.

For all those reasons, Vettel trumps Alonso for me.

At the very least, you have to say Vettel is the better tyre manager ... had more balls ... out-thought every other driver ... and he was absolutely flawless in his execution of making his very own strategy call work.

Vettel: 10 out of 10 for Monaco Q3 and the Monaco Grand Prix!

Wonderful!

Soon to be the youngest Double World Champion in Formula One history!

 

[gethinceri]

.
At the very least, you have to say Vettel is the better tyre manager ... had more balls ... out-thought every other driver ... and he was absolutely flawless in his execution of making his very own strategy call work.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Sorry to burst anyones bubble but Red Bull's tyre strategy for Vettel wasn't. it was a rather fortunate accident. When Vettel pitted the team weren't ready and they fitted, quite by chance, the wrong set of tyres. This was explained by Martin Brundle on the Beeb's Red Button Forum.

Had RBR not botched up the stop, Vettel would have kept track position and STILL won the race.

Remember, the botched stop cost them an extra 5 or 6 seconds...and they lost track position to Button as a result.

Had RBR not cost Vettel that lost time, and had they put him on the Super-Softs, Vettel would have beaten Button HANDILY.

It would have been an EASIER victory for Vettel. RBR's screw up made Vettel work much harder for the win.

And..Vettel WANTED to win this race.

 

[gethinceri]

Oh that'll be it then Ray, noone else wanted to win. I'll have to lie down - you're creasing me up.

 

[Slyboogy]

Had RBR not botched up the stop, Vettel would have kept track position and STILL won the race.

Can't claim that as it never happened, and therefore it is not a FACT.

However I do agree that he would have PROBABLY hung on and won, but to CLAIM that he WOULD have is MISLEADING.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

He was going to try to go 62 laps on them.

He was only interested in winning this race.

The difference between 2nd and 3rd, to Vettel, was nothing.

Either you lift the Monaco Grand Prix victory trophy or you go home with 18 or 15 points.

Given where Vettel was in the WDC standings, the 3 points between 2nd and 3rd was meaningless.

Winning the Grand Prix de Monaco was EVERYTHING...and i'm sure Vettel drove very sparingly in order to have enough life in those tyres to keep ahead at the Chequered Flag!

Plus RBR would have done their homework.

No team would sanction their driver having a big shunt in the Tunnel as a result of a burst tyre.

No way!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Oh that'll be it then Ray, noone else wanted to win. I'll have to lie down - you're creasing me up.

What I meant was that Vettel seem to have wanted the win more than, say, Button.

Button seem to be all smiley and grinning just being happy to be up on the Podium. Button didn't deserve the victory.

Heck, he didn't even finish 2nd!

 

[Slyboogy]

What I meant was that Vettel seem to have wanted the win more than, say, Button.

Button seem to be all smiley and grinning just being happy to be up on the Podium. Button didn't deserve the victory.

Heck, he didn't even finish 2nd!

You can say that, as Vettel probably did, and Button wanted to bring in the points rather than risk an accident (unlike his team-mate, sorry had to get that in ).

But to say he didn't deserve the victory? You can easily Vettel didn't because he got lucky with the safety cars and red flag, and you can say the same for Alonso as he pitted at the right time and got lucky there.

Anyone of those top 3 drivers DESERVED the win, and I am a high critic of Alonso and Button.

 

[gethinceri]

'night lads.

 

[tranquility2k9]

Sorry but why is this Ray In Toronto guy being allowed to post? I got sick of him on bbc 606, and now he is putting me off posting on here. Every thread he makes is trying to wind people up? Can the mods please DO something about this?

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

You can say that, as Vettel probably did, and Button wanted to bring in the points rather than risk an accident (unlike his team-mate, sorry had to get that in ).

But to say he didn't deserve the victory? You can easily Vettel didn't because he got lucky with the safety cars and red flag, and you can say the same for Alonso as he pitted at the right time and got lucky there.

Anyone of those top 3 drivers DESERVED the win, and I am a high critic of Alonso and Button.

I agree with you that Alonso got lucky with the safety car...but Vettel didn't get lucky.

Vettel's pitstop was botched up by his RBR team/mechanics...so, out of the three, he was the LEAST luckiest.

Assuming that he lucked-out because the Red Flag came out, assumes that Alonso's tyres were not degrading as well and that Alonso had no one behind him and so he didn't have to look in his mirrors.

If you think Alonso was just going to waltz by Vettel, you're extrapolating excessively. Alonso had Button in his mirrors and Alonso was on weaker tyres than Button.

Vettel didn't luck into anything. The poor guy actually lost track position to Button because RBR cost him 5 or 6 seconds too many during the botched pit stop on Lap 16.

 

[tranquility2k9]

How is my thread a wind-up?

You know what you are doing - don't get me wrong, you have a brain in your head. Some of your threads are actually quite good, but as anyone on bbc606 will know, you consistently cause controversy and all of your topics are aimed at causing a quite heated debate and often your facts aren't quite on the mark. If you can tone it down a bit then I have no problem with you but all I have to do is look at your title to say what the hell is going on with the PRO Vettel "maturing skill set". ANYONE with any sense has said he had quite immense luck today!

The largest single piece of luck he had was that Lewis didn't even get to put a proper qualifying lap in Q3 yesterday, otherwise, I think we would have had quite a different result. Without any disrespect to Jenson; Lewis has pulled away from him and out-paced him at almost every grand prix when they have been in close proximity as team mates and I think had Lewis been near the front after qualifying, he would have made mince meat of Vettel, regardless of his strategy.

McLaren have been faster than Red Bull in the race at the last two grand prixs. Lets hope their strategists can start getting them some wins, because the drivers cannot do much more!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

You know what you are doing ... all I have to do is look at your title to say what the hell is going on with the PRO Vettel "maturing skill set".

The largest single piece of luck he had was that Lewis didn't even get to put a proper qualifying lap in Q3 yesterday...

...had Lewis been near the front after qualifying, he would have made mince meat of Vettel, regardless of his strategy.

McLaren have been faster than Red Bull in the race at the last two grand prixs. Lets hope their strategists can start getting them some wins, because the drivers cannot do much more!

A couple of things:

So, you're saying Vettel isn't maturing?

Also, don't you think that Hamilton should take some responsibility for not putting in an early banker lap in Q3?

A driver of Hamilton's quality and experience should know that Monaco demands that you don't leave it too late in final qualifying.

Lastly, Lewis aborted his flying lap with 3:21 left in Q3 eventhough it would have been good enough for Row Two.

Why did he do that? Martin Brundle said Massa wasn't really in Hamilton's way on that Q3 flyer.

That's Hamilton's own doing.

Vettel ALSO had traffic to contend with on his Pole lap.

But I suppose you didn't see that.

Regards.

PS

I will be in Montreal to cheer Lewis on in two weeks!

Hopefully he can win our Grand Prix so Vettel doesn't win the WDC by Summer.

I was under the podium last year at the Canadian GP...and was happy to see a driver of Lewis' quality lift our country's most prized motor racing victory trophy!

Cheers.

 

[gethinceri]

Now I run the risk of inciting one of you but, if you read the title of a thread and feel incensed at the topic then of course you'll read it. If you see who's created it and their additional comments and combine this with your experience of their M.O. surely this is a signal either to avoid the thread or appreciate the challenge that your involvement will stir up.
I have spent many hours tackling Ray, he (or she - I've never asked) is a stubborn and sometimes crotchety old bastard, and I would never enter into a forum chat with him unless I felt I was in the right mood. Read my comments in this thread as responses to his. He's wrong, belligerent, bluffing even himself that he's right, but I know that he's always got a good (ish) argument and often that his argument dovetails with mine. That's why I welcome his arrival to CTA.
This is not 606, give it a couple of weeks more and you'll see that.
The Mods will spot the plonkers and deal with them, you don't have to ask them to.

 

[Slyboogy]

Tranquility if you think he's bad and he is PRO Vettel, I think you should look at your own posts and you'll find that you are just as PRO towards Hamilton as Ray is towards Vettel.

But you both raise good points when it's not about Hamilton or Vettel in the thread...and I thoroughly agree with what Gethenceri said above.

No-one is perfect...