Martin Whitmarsh witch hunt
- Thread starter Il_leone
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I would suggest that there are at least 21 people on here who would disagree with you, and more pertinently, so does Ron Dennis...
I would suggest that the 21 (now 24) people who voted were actually answering the question, i.e. "Who will be McLaren Team principal next season?", rather than specifically giving Whitmarsh a vote of confidence on his suitability - at least that was the case with my vote.
I did the opposite. I have often defended Martin Whitmarsh and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. However, the greatest of leaders have often been defeated by the rabble and sometimes people are made a scapegoat whether they deserve it or not.
I would just like to point out....
It's quite funny after one race in Silverstone two incidents occured and none Martin Whitmarsh has control over...
Is it Whitmarsh's fault that the lollipop man raised the lollipop when the front left wasn't attached? Was it his fault that the car was "under-fuelled"? My answer to both questions are no.
However, Martin Whitmarsh has only been the boss for 3 seasons (including this one), all 3 seasons his cars have won races. McLaren are going through a bad period since 2000 for a top team, only in contention for the titles in 4 out of 10 seasons, I counted in 2005 although I feel that I shouldn't.
Ron Dennis was the boss for 9 of those 10 years, yet during his time the team only won 1 title.
I don't think Whitmarsh is doing a bad job, I think that Red Bull has had the upper hand on all the teams since 2009 and since when the double diffusers got banned, they always will have the advantage until 2014, unless teams go for a radical design which may not pay off, like McLaren did this year, didn't work for them, while their main rivals for many years went conservative rather than radical and got nowhere either.
It's quite funny after one race in Silverstone two incidents occured and none Martin Whitmarsh has control over...
Is it Whitmarsh's fault that the lollipop man raised the lollipop when the front left wasn't attached? Was it his fault that the car was "under-fuelled"? My answer to both questions are no.
However, Martin Whitmarsh has only been the boss for 3 seasons (including this one), all 3 seasons his cars have won races. McLaren are going through a bad period since 2000 for a top team, only in contention for the titles in 4 out of 10 seasons, I counted in 2005 although I feel that I shouldn't.
Ron Dennis was the boss for 9 of those 10 years, yet during his time the team only won 1 title.
I don't think Whitmarsh is doing a bad job, I think that Red Bull has had the upper hand on all the teams since 2009 and since when the double diffusers got banned, they always will have the advantage until 2014, unless teams go for a radical design which may not pay off, like McLaren did this year, didn't work for them, while their main rivals for many years went conservative rather than radical and got nowhere either.
I think that's an excellent observation. Not to say that one of them wouldn't be beating the other even more regularly ...
Thats a very astute statement.One which I fully agree with.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Yes, Legard was deposed by the rabble
Bloomberg.There is no way that you can call these people F1 pundits.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/people.asp?privcapId=122769
KEY EXECUTIVES FOR McLaren Group Limited*
Name Board Relationships Title Age
Martin Whitmarsh8 Relationships Chief Executive Officer and Director 53
Ron Dennis
Andy Myers
Tim Murnane
McLaren Group Limited Board Members*
Name Board Relationships Primary Company Age
Ron Dennis
Martin Whitmarsh
Andy Myers
Tim Murnane
Mansour Ojjeh
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Interesting that you should think that he was great.
More that the rabble are often correct
Revolutions generally have underlying reasons
Smoke normally comes with a fire
Very true, but I was happy to be part of that particular rabble.
Maybe I'm wrong but aren't we the rabble? CTA is an open forum for F1 fans with no limit on age or 'F1 knowledge' (thank god) - the posters here are a cross section of F1 fans - from teenages to pensioners, those who started watching this season and those who have been watching for 40 years, From those in the industry to those who have never even passed a driving test. So surely the fact that (as of writing) 26 of us have voted to keep Whitmarsh and only 11 have voted for someone else (at least one of those votes for Eddie Jordan is a joke right Axle?) means in actual fact the 'rable' are actually not convinced by all this media stuff anyways.
I think we get on dangerous ground if we start thinking this forum is above the average fan.
As for the Whitmarsh stuff - the media is always wanting us to shout for Barabus because it sells more - sometimes the crowd listens and starts baying for blood and sometimes the majority just turn and can't be bothered. This 'Whitmarsh is the issue' thing has been around since 2009 and I'm glad to see by this pole that less and less people believe in it every year.
I think we get on dangerous ground if we start thinking this forum is above the average fan.
As for the Whitmarsh stuff - the media is always wanting us to shout for Barabus because it sells more - sometimes the crowd listens and starts baying for blood and sometimes the majority just turn and can't be bothered. This 'Whitmarsh is the issue' thing has been around since 2009 and I'm glad to see by this pole that less and less people believe in it every year.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
The poll asks not if Whitmarsh is doing a good job but who is most likely to be boss next year
The respondents could all think that he is terrible but also understand that he can't be replaced before next year
The rabble have been voicing discontent with MW for years, now pundits and journos are starting to voice similar opinion, this is the way of revolutions, the rabble are normally right and the rabble normally get their way
Rabble in this instance is not a negative term, it just means the masses not with individual but collective power
The respondents could all think that he is terrible but also understand that he can't be replaced before next year
The rabble have been voicing discontent with MW for years, now pundits and journos are starting to voice similar opinion, this is the way of revolutions, the rabble are normally right and the rabble normally get their way
Rabble in this instance is not a negative term, it just means the masses not with individual but collective power
Il_leone
World Champion
I put the poll up because when I read it the other week I am thinking my goodness because the British media or I should say the Daily Mail sound like the Italian media who would not waste a moment to demand actions and explanations for Ferrari incompetence.
I don't remember any of this witch hunt aimed at people like Frank Williams for costing Mansell 3 world titles with tyre problems 86 blow out, 87 - loose wheel nut, 91- the guy on the right did not the tyre properly ala Jenson
Similarly there was not this sort of witch hunt aimed at Nick Fry at HOnda for ruining Button's career for 3 years or Ron Dennis for his tyre call in China 2007
I am not sure what firing Whitmarsh would achieve at Mclaren other than chaos because thats what happened if you fire a team principal mid season
I don't remember any of this witch hunt aimed at people like Frank Williams for costing Mansell 3 world titles with tyre problems 86 blow out, 87 - loose wheel nut, 91- the guy on the right did not the tyre properly ala Jenson
Similarly there was not this sort of witch hunt aimed at Nick Fry at HOnda for ruining Button's career for 3 years or Ron Dennis for his tyre call in China 2007
I am not sure what firing Whitmarsh would achieve at Mclaren other than chaos because thats what happened if you fire a team principal mid season
I think the phrases "public opinion" and "newspaper editors' opinion" are unfortunately synonymous with each other.
Quite right!
As someone who voted Whitmarsh, I'd like to reassure you that not only do I think he will be McLaren team principal next season, I also think he should be McLaren team principal next season.
Remember, Ron Dennis was captain of the good ships 1984, 1988 and 1998 but he was at the helm for 1992, 1995 and 2004 as well. No-one has ever been brilliant every season as a team principal.
And claiming that McLaren are failing because of Whitmarsh and that Red Bull are succeeding despite Horner is slightly incongruous.
Quite right!
As someone who voted Whitmarsh, I'd like to reassure you that not only do I think he will be McLaren team principal next season, I also think he should be McLaren team principal next season.
Remember, Ron Dennis was captain of the good ships 1984, 1988 and 1998 but he was at the helm for 1992, 1995 and 2004 as well. No-one has ever been brilliant every season as a team principal.
And claiming that McLaren are failing because of Whitmarsh and that Red Bull are succeeding despite Horner is slightly incongruous.
Il_leone
World Champion
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I belief some people make their judgement about Whitmarsh based on seeing F1 since 2007...Ron Dennis has had some terrible seasons with Mclaren but not a lot of people remember his winless years from 1994 to 1997 including Mansell being too fat for the Mclaren and the mid wing car or even the 1992 season when Mclaren got a serious whooping from Williams only reliability saved them from being more embarrassed
I remember Mclaren were so poor they bought 6 cars to BRazil against Williams and Senna lead an 11 car train before quitting
I wouldn't ever claim anyone started watching F1 in a particular year, but its not even a case of short memories in my book. McLaren haven't won a WCC since 1998, and Ron was team principal for 2007, a year in which it was management and not design which failed.
I dont think anyone has suggested that either CTA members are above anyone else or that they are not part of the 'rabble' as I coined in my post. The context of the word rabble is not intended to be in any way derogatory. I think you may have misinterpreted.
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