Jenson Button

Arguably the best ever driver in mixed conditions, all his wins at Mclaren have come in those conditions. His last race win in the dry came at the 2009 Turkish GP.

Button is known for his smooth driving style and is normally seen in must races doing one less stop than his rivals for tyres.

Buttons also know to be a bit of a practical joker and will take part in anything fun.

Since his debut in 2000 Button has won the majority of hearts in this country. But what is your favourite JB win?

Mine has to be Hungaroring 2006, in argubly a midfield team and he won the race in those mixed conditions to take his first win. I can remember James Allen been in tears almost and that was the first race Anthony Davidson ever commentated on.

 

[Bill Boddy]

When he went to look round the McLaren factory and talk to Whitmarsh he came away and said to his manager...'get me that McLaran drive even if I have to drive for nothing'.....

Where did you get that from?

The Guardian had a slightly different viewpoint just before the announcement was made. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/13/jenson-button-mclaren-brawn
"Goddard made it clear that Button was not aiming for the £10m annual fee that drivers such as Hamilton and Fernando Alonso have under the terms of their existing agreements. But it is clear he wants more than the bargain-rate, reputed £4m deal he agreed with the emergent Brawn team before the start of last season to stay on the Formula One grid in a year when he was almost left kicking his heels in the pits with nothing to drive."

 

[ExtremeNinja]

People were saying he would be an idiot to go to McLaren for that very reason

But he didn't go there on those terms - just on the external premise that he be relegated to those terms. I don't think he ever believed that. It was a challenge he felt up-to and relished.

 

[racecub]

Where did you get that from?

The Guardian had a slightly different viewpoint just before the announcement was made. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/13/jenson-button-mclaren-brawn
"Goddard made it clear that Button was not aiming for the £10m annual fee that drivers such as Hamilton and Fernando Alonso have under the terms of their existing agreements. But it is clear he wants more than the bargain-rate, reputed £4m deal he agreed with the emergent Brawn team before the start of last season to stay on the Formula One grid in a year when he was almost left kicking his heels in the pits with nothing to drive."

I got it from an article on Jenson Button in autosport on March 15th this year, called 'More than McLaren bargained for'.
Here is the relevant part...

..."he instructed Goddard(his manager) later that night (after his tour and chat with Martin) to get him the deal no matter what. Jenson did not he said, want to hear about 'Mercedes has come back with this counter offer', did not want to hear from Goddard again with any message other than "The McLaren deal is ready for you to sign'. 'Do whatever McLaren deal you can' he instructed his manager, 'even if it means me driving for nothing."

I wonder what he was promised to make it so very attractive?

 

[RasputinLives]

I got it from an article on Jenson Button in autosport on March 15th this year, called 'More than McLaren bargained for'.
Here is the relevant part...

..."he instructed Goddard(his manager) later that night (after his tour and chat with Martin) to get him the deal no matter what. Jenson did not he said, want to hear about 'Mercedes has come back with this counter offer', did not want to hear from Goddard again with any message other than "The McLaren deal is ready for you to sign'. 'Do whatever McLaren deal you can' he instructed his manager, 'even if it means me driving for nothing."

I wonder what he was promised to make it so very attractive?

I think Jenson decided that after his world championship he was finally in the drivers seat come negociations and after years of being on the brink he finally wanted a seat with one of the big teams. I know what your aiming at when you say you wondered what he was 'promised' but personally I think after spending years kicking around with developing teams since he left Williams (lets face it Benneton/Renault were not a force when he was with them) he probably walked into the Mclaren factory and was blown away with their facilities and thought he had to be there. Same would probably have happened if he'd gone to visit Ferrari.

Lets face it they may not always be the teams at the front but Ferrari and Mclaren are the most prestigious teams in F1 - the only one that could near rival it at any time was Williams and Jenson knew they were dead and gone. Mclaren were probably the sort of team he dreamed about being part of when he was a kid. I don't think they needed to promise him anything to get him to want to join at all costs.

 

[racecub]

Yes I agree with much of what you've said there. I wasnt suggesting he was promised number one status, that would have been stupidity in the first degee! But maybe a big hand in the car design? Something like 'We need someone who can work closely with the design team. We need someone to help with the direction we go with the car. We need someone who can lead the team'. Knowing how Button needs a car 'just so', that would have been hugely attractive to him.Thats purely conjecture of course, but something on that visit made the McLaren drive much more attractive than it was before his visit.

 

[The Artist.....]

Yes I agree with much of what you've said there. I wasnt suggesting he was promised number one status, that would have been stupidity in the first degee! But maybe a big hand in the car design? Something like 'We need someone who can work closely with the design team. We need someone to help with the direction we go with the car. We need someone who can lead the team'. Knowing how Button needs a car 'just so', that would have been hugely attractive to him.Thats purely conjecture of course, but something on that visit made the McLaren drive much more attractive than it was before his visit.

If you read the rest of the article, it also said that button was fed up of people saying that he was only champion by default, and so wanted to prove himself to the doubters by going into the proverbial dragons den!

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Yes I agree with much of what you've said there. I wasnt suggesting he was promised number one status, that would have been stupidity in the first degee! But maybe a big hand in the car design? Something like 'We need someone who can work closely with the design team. We need someone to help with the direction we go with the car. We need someone who can lead the team'. Knowing how Button needs a car 'just so', that would have been hugely attractive to him.Thats purely conjecture of course, but something on that visit made the McLaren drive much more attractive than it was before his visit.

I'm sure he would have wanted to show that world that he could hack it at a top team having been lumbered with Honda's garbage and I would imagine he'd have been sick of hearing 'Jenson Button, World Champion 2009......but only because of the double diffuser etc etc'. With McLaren being one of the top 2 teams on the grid, with Brawn having been so comprehensively out-developed in 2009, and of course the uncertainty that the Merc takeover would bring, moving to McLaren with the stabilty and knowledge that he'd be getting a car capable of race wins pretty much every season was pretty much a no-brainer.

 

[Viscount]

moving to McLaren with the stabilty and knowledge that he'd be getting a car capable of race wins pretty much every season was pretty much a no-brainer.

I think that's simply it. McLaren were the only team offering a race seat that would consistently give him the chance to win races and compete for titles. After winning the 2009 title I'm sure that's something he wanted and to go to any team other than McLaren would kind of be a step back in his career.

 

[Il_leone]

If the team gave him equal status to Alonso from the start I think he could definitely challenge Alonso to become the dominant force at Ferrari. But as Ferrari generally have number 1 & 2 drivers (which I think is the best strategy), I highly doubt they'd sign Button as a number 1 or even equal status driver whilst Alonso is still there.

Ferrari only work best having NO 1 and No 2 drivers especially with their mad house politics. The only time it worked well with equal status was Villeneuve and Scheckter in 1979 I would say

There is no way Alonso would allow equal status after his experience and paranoia at Mclaren ;although Luca keeps harbouring about Vettel...Alonso making it known he does not rate Vettel as highly as Hamilton

 

[Il_leone]

I'm sure he would have wanted to show that world that he could hack it at a top team having been lumbered with Honda's garbage and I would imagine he'd have been sick of hearing 'Jenson Button, World Champion 2009......but only because of the double diffuser etc etc'. With McLaren being one of the top 2 teams on the grid, with Brawn having been so comprehensively out-developed in 2009, and of course the uncertainty that the Merc takeover would bring, moving to McLaren with the stabilty and knowledge that he'd be getting a car capable of race wins pretty much every season was pretty much a no-brainer.

That was one of the things that motivated Button ... from the usual discrediting garbage from his detractors about not winning a race , not going to be world champion..oh won;t drive a top team and not as good as Hamilton and only good because of the double diffuser advantage.

We've gone through this before Mercedes made it clear they did not want Button when they took over BRawn and basically told him though the puppet Nick Fry to accept the wages he was on and not what he thought he may get back if he wants to stay

No (and he hasnt dethroned Hamilton, though he's tyring hard)

NO but he's done a lot better than anyone who has previously tried by beating him over a season which is a start

When he went to look round the McLaren factory and talk to Whitmarsh he came away and said to his manager...'get me that McLaran drive even if I have to drive for nothing'. I wonder what was said, promised, shown him, that made him feel like that?

That is all part of getting the drive or the job you want . I am sure the smarter people like Schumacher and Alonso would have done the same. In Alonso's case he thought Ron Dennis went back on his promises in 2007

Whitmarsh was not exactly convinced about signing Button until talks with Raikkonen stalled and Button's manager opened up possibilities for him to visit the factory on his way back into UK

The drive for nothing quote I;ve heard before from a certain Ayrton Senna when he tried to land himself a Williams drive at $23m less than Mansell which is about the same sort of money Raikkonen was trying to hold out for

Why would not Whitmarsh consider it given Raikkonen had what appeared to be ordinary seasons post 2007 and Button was the current world champion at much cheaper money

 

[Il_leone]

in joining Mclaren Jenson has probably made the best career decision ever.

As the counter offer from Mercedes was reportedly 1 year contract for £8 -£10m a year but he simply was not interested given some of the negative PR that came out when BRawn were taken over by Mercedes about his future with that team

 

[racecub]

No reason at all why Whitmarsh shouldnt consider him, and his choice has clearly been vindicated by Button's results.And indeed he is the first driver to outscore Hamilton.Button on the oher hand has been outscored by a few team-mates.The current tyres flatter Button, as does no refuelling, so he's lucky with the circumstances. Not to take away from his achievements though, I accept that.

 

[Il_leone]

No reason at all why Whitmarsh shouldnt consider him, and his choice has clearly been vindicated by Button's results.And indeed he is the first driver to outscore Hamilton.Button on the oher hand has been outscored by a few team-mates.The current tyres flatter Button, as does no refuelling, so he's lucky with the circumstances. Not to take away from his achievements though, I accept that.

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So did Bridgestone specifically designing tyres for Schumacher at Ferrari given him an advantage over other Bridgestone runners

Prost excelled in the era of turbos no refueling with fuel management and better use of tyres in the 1980's

Vettel looked great in a Red Bull with flexi wings and double diffuser but not now
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As for Button being outscored by a few teammates

R Schumacher 2000 - okay debut season which is expected but he did show he had talent with some strong performances and great quali like Spa and Suzuka

Fisichella 2001 - a driver from Flavio BRiatore's stable who ran NO 1 and NO 2 policy at Benetton and before Alonso , Fisichella was his favoured golden boy

Barrichello 2008 - wasted season because Ross BRawn got the team to focus on 2009 because he knew the team gains was not going to push them any further to the front despite starting to make top 10.
Barrichello owed it to one good result at SIlverstone mainly. However Rubens has only been outscored by Schumacher throughout his F1 career.

 

[racecub]

-----------------------------

So did Bridgestone specifically designing tyres for Schumacher at Ferrari given him an advantage over other Bridgestone runners

Prost excelled in the era of turbos no refueling with fuel management and better use of tyres in the 1980's

Vettel looked great in a Red Bull with flexi wings and double diffuser but not now
------------------------------

As for Button being outscored by a few teammates

R Schumacher 2000 - okay debut season which is expected but he did show he had talent with some strong performances and great quali like Spa and Suzuka

Fisichella 2001 - a driver from Flavio BRiatore's stable who ran NO 1 and NO 2 policy at Benetton and before Alonso , Fisichella was his favoured golden boy

Barrichello 2008 - wasted season because Ross BRawn got the team to focus on 2009 because he knew the team gains was not going to push them any further to the front despite starting to make top 10.
Barrichello owed it to one good result at SIlverstone mainly. However Rubens has only been outscored by Schumacher throughout his F1 career.

Whoa! Calm down.I just said there were circumstances playing into Button's hands, I didnt say circumstances hadnt played into other drivers hands at other times. And I credited Button with making the best of opportunities offered him.
I gave a couple of contributing reasons as to why he outscored Lewis in one season. You've just given a lot of reasons why Jenson was outscored by team mates 3 times (and Lewis outscored him 2010 as well, so its 4 times).
Im not rubbishing Jenson here, Im very impressed!! It just cant be said he's dethroned Hamilton.

 

[Jen]

Whoa! Calm down.I just said there were circumstances playing into Button's hands, I didnt say circumstances hadnt played into other drivers hands at other times. And I credited Button with making the best of opportunities offered him.
I gave a couple of contributing reasons as to why he outscored Lewis in one season. You've just given a lot of reasons why Jenson was outscored by team mates 3 times (and Lewis outscored him 2010 as well, so its 4 times).
Im not rubbishing Jenson here, Im very impressed!! It just cant be said he's dethroned Hamilton.

Wrong thread - you need the Hydra thread, I think

 

[racecub]

Whats the hydra thread?

 

[Jen]

Whats the hydra thread?

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/jenson-button-vs-lewis-hamilton.4734/

 

[racecub]

Fair enough, strike my last comment. I thought the dethroning was mentioned on this thread. My mistake. Sorry.

 

[Il_leone]

Whoa! Calm down.I just said there were circumstances playing into Button's hands, I didnt say circumstances hadnt played into other drivers hands at other times. And I credited Button with making the best of opportunities offered him.
I gave a couple of contributing reasons as to why he outscored Lewis in one season. You've just given a lot of reasons why Jenson was outscored by team mates 3 times (and Lewis outscored him 2010 as well, so its 4 times).
Im not rubbishing Jenson here, Im very impressed!! It just cant be said he's dethroned Hamilton.

It will only be dethroned if he drives Hamilton out of Mclaren but he's done a lot better than any other teammate for a start

 

[racecub]

It will only be dethroned if he drives Hamilton out of Mclaren but he's done a lot better than any other teammate for a start

Wrong thread- you nead the hydra thread apparantly.