Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
- Thread starter Brogan
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Cookinflatsix
Banned
This could be the root of Jensons recent collapse, the pressure to live up to these bold statements;
Alonso is no threat to me
I will beat Lewis again
I am the number 1 at McLaren
Whitmarsh - Jenson has built a team,Lewis should learn from this
Whitmarsh - Jenson has produced one of the best drives of all time in F1
Whitmarsh - Jenson has affected Lewis and has him runnIng scared (
)
Jenson has sown the wind and now reaps the whirlwind, methinks
Alonso is no threat to me
I will beat Lewis again
I am the number 1 at McLaren
Whitmarsh - Jenson has built a team,Lewis should learn from this
Whitmarsh - Jenson has produced one of the best drives of all time in F1
Whitmarsh - Jenson has affected Lewis and has him runnIng scared (
)Jenson has sown the wind and now reaps the whirlwind, methinks
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Doesnt make sense though that a driver with the ability of Button when things are perfect is unable to get to grips (see what I did there?) with tyres when newcomers like Grosjean and Perez can deal with it and adapt
I mean who had an absolute stinker in this 7th race because of the tyres?
Surely an intelligent and experienced tyre expert like Jenson would have worked it out by the 7th race
Lets not forget that this is a track where McLaren 'own' and so its odd that Button has his worst finish in a good car
I just cant understand it
edit: this is veering towards the Jenson vs Lewis thread so perhaps we should continue there, unless ofcourse its beneath you?
I mean who had an absolute stinker in this 7th race because of the tyres?
Surely an intelligent and experienced tyre expert like Jenson would have worked it out by the 7th race
Lets not forget that this is a track where McLaren 'own' and so its odd that Button has his worst finish in a good car
I just cant understand it
edit: this is veering towards the Jenson vs Lewis thread so perhaps we should continue there, unless ofcourse its beneath you?
.
riskitall
Points Scorer
yeah equal machinery,but he didnt beat lewis at his best.
its like when a mid table team beat the team at the top of the league.
button is a good driver,very good on his day,but only if he's completely comfortable in the car.
ppl claim he's a more complete driver,which means he must do more things better than lewis?
he has lots of experience and he is supposed to be better at setting up his car than lewis,and better at tyre management.
he is better than what we've seen,but if he continues to underperform he will get totally thrashed by lewis.and lets not forget get the amount of points that penalty in spain cost lewis,the points gap should be bigger.
its like when a mid table team beat the team at the top of the league.
button is a good driver,very good on his day,but only if he's completely comfortable in the car.
ppl claim he's a more complete driver,which means he must do more things better than lewis?
he has lots of experience and he is supposed to be better at setting up his car than lewis,and better at tyre management.
he is better than what we've seen,but if he continues to underperform he will get totally thrashed by lewis.and lets not forget get the amount of points that penalty in spain cost lewis,the points gap should be bigger.
The video is on the Skysports website for anyone who wants to watch it. It was typical Ron speak and i think he was referring to the fact that they couldn't run through their testing programme (re-do parts swap with Hamilton's car) because of the issues with Jenson's car. There is obviously a lot of sympathy for Jenson within the McLaren garage for the difficulties he had in Practice and quali and it didn't help that he has current issues with tyres.
That's just this race though, Jenson has been very poor in comparison to what McLaren can achieve in the last few races. Maybe he should endeavour to get an identical set up to Lewis seeing as despite the sheer amount of team fuck ups he is still leading the championship. Must be worth a punt
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Please don't quote me on this thread as any posts of mine (Apart from this one.) that appear on here have been moved here by a mod or an admin. I honestly don't want anything to do with this thread.
In fact Cookinflatsix I find your post mocking and disrespectful...
Note to all moderators anything I post that you feel belongs on here please do not transfer them to here I would rather they were deleted instead...
If I do find any of my posts on here from now on I will simply edit them out and leave a smiley in their place..
In fact Cookinflatsix I find your post mocking and disrespectful...
Note to all moderators anything I post that you feel belongs on here please do not transfer them to here I would rather they were deleted instead...
If I do find any of my posts on here from now on I will simply edit them out and leave a smiley in their place..
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Mephistopheles although you wont see this as you don't read the thread, I did not mean to be disrespectful, its just that when you said 'sometimes its hard been a Jenson fan' I heard this song and wanted to share its sentiments with you, thats why i chose the version with the lyrics on
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18390600
He claims his problems are not to do with tyres yet Whitmarsh said they tried out a new rear suspension configuration to "help him with his main problem of switching the tyres on". I'm sure he'll be back to winning races again but this whole episode further confirms the view that he's brilliant when the car is perfect and distinctly average when it isn't. As you say - he shouldn't be having these problems 7 races into the season and I think he's been given a far too easy ride by the media compared to other drivers who have had to navigate similar issues (Schumacher being a prime example). Maybe Sunday was pay back for driving Ham into the wall last year (jk).
Well, he seemed to have a handle on the tyres in oz and China, and malaysia was a crash, not tyres, and Bahrain both McLarens were average, so that leaves 3 races.
Jenson said it is not tyres, who knows. Martin Whitmarsh cites a new rear suspension set up to help with the tyres, so who knows, although it seems rather odd that he is the only one struggling to this degree, I mean, I cannot recall him ever being this far off his team mate in any of his 13 seasons, so I accept his sensitivity to car set up, but suggest that there may be something more fundamental at play. Not to excuse the situation really, but simply pointing out that whatever you think about jb, this is way outside the norm.
Jenson said it is not tyres, who knows. Martin Whitmarsh cites a new rear suspension set up to help with the tyres, so who knows, although it seems rather odd that he is the only one struggling to this degree, I mean, I cannot recall him ever being this far off his team mate in any of his 13 seasons, so I accept his sensitivity to car set up, but suggest that there may be something more fundamental at play. Not to excuse the situation really, but simply pointing out that whatever you think about jb, this is way outside the norm.
Ron says its not JB's fault but the rear suspention set up last time he changed his gear box. So who knows naybe the team have mucked up a bjt for him and his heads gone down. Wouldn't be the first driver too.
Anyways lets hope we see him back on form soon eh?
Anyways lets hope we see him back on form soon eh?
riskitall
Points Scorer
you know what i think it is?
last season because of the tyres lewis was having to drive quite abit slower than he is capable of to look after the tyres.
whereas jenson was able to push a little bit harder during races because of his smoother style being better on the tyres.
this made it look like jenson was just as quick,if not quicker.
but in quali last season lewis was often quicker than jenson,because he was able to go flat out.
he wasnt able to do that during races,so all of a sudden jenson looked quicker at times.
but how can you go from being faster in quali to slower in the race,i mean if your faster your faster.unless you have to drive slower for some reason.
this season jenson started it full of confidence,lewis started in low on confidence.plus i think lewis thought the tyres were exactly like last seasons,so button put in a better performance than lewis in aus.but as the seasons gone on lewis has grown in confidence and is starting to see more and more that these tyres allow you to push harder than last seasons tyres,so now we are starting to see lewis's pace return during races.and because he knew he could push harder in canada we saw the old lewis return the lewis who nails it every lap setting purples,not the lewis of last season.this must be worrying jenson,especially when you consider how tight quali and races are this season.jensons first crash of the season happened because he panicked when lewis came out of the pits right behind him(because of another slow pitstop by mclaren)and then tried that overtake to quickly and took himself out the game.even if jenson sorts himself out,he wont beat lewis in this form
last season because of the tyres lewis was having to drive quite abit slower than he is capable of to look after the tyres.
whereas jenson was able to push a little bit harder during races because of his smoother style being better on the tyres.
this made it look like jenson was just as quick,if not quicker.
but in quali last season lewis was often quicker than jenson,because he was able to go flat out.
he wasnt able to do that during races,so all of a sudden jenson looked quicker at times.
but how can you go from being faster in quali to slower in the race,i mean if your faster your faster.unless you have to drive slower for some reason.
this season jenson started it full of confidence,lewis started in low on confidence.plus i think lewis thought the tyres were exactly like last seasons,so button put in a better performance than lewis in aus.but as the seasons gone on lewis has grown in confidence and is starting to see more and more that these tyres allow you to push harder than last seasons tyres,so now we are starting to see lewis's pace return during races.and because he knew he could push harder in canada we saw the old lewis return the lewis who nails it every lap setting purples,not the lewis of last season.this must be worrying jenson,especially when you consider how tight quali and races are this season.jensons first crash of the season happened because he panicked when lewis came out of the pits right behind him(because of another slow pitstop by mclaren)and then tried that overtake to quickly and took himself out the game.even if jenson sorts himself out,he wont beat lewis in this form
riskitall
Points Scorer
but whats the reason for his poor performances in spain and monaco?
its not like it was the first time in canada.
riskitall
Points Scorer
This could be the root of Jensons recent collapse, the pressure to live up to these bold statements;
Alonso is no threat to me
I will beat Lewis again
I am the number 1 at McLaren
Whitmarsh - Jenson has built a team,Lewis should learn from this
Whitmarsh - Jenson has produced one of the best drives of all time in F1
Whitmarsh - Jenson has affected Lewis and has him runnIng scared (
Jenson has sown the wind and now reaps the whirlwind, methinks
we'll see what happens in valencia,whitmarsh seems sure button will win there.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
The way I see it is that Jenson has not really done anything wrong or dipped that much in form. He has never been the driver to push to the limit unless the car is 100% sorted. This year the cars are all a lot closer and therefore the braver drivers (willing to push no matter what) are crowding out the less brave drivers (those unwilling to push when the car is not 100% predictable i.e perfect balance and grip)
So what we will see is Jenson driving around procession style not pushing too hard to avoid crashing out, this however means that he will not progress through a field with drivers ahead of him and in cars closer to his than in 2011
So I dont think there is anything wrong or that Jenson has lost his talent, its just that his way of driving is getting trounced by the fact that there are now about 10 drivers in cars close to him who are more willing to go faster despite the uncertainty surrounding the tyres
Lets not forget that Jenson has had identical issues most of his 13 year career, and it was only when his car was way faster than others that he did not face this problem of half the field more willing to drive around problems and uncertainty. we saw in the second half of 2009 for example that once the car became a little quirky, Reubens was much better. Why? because he was more willing to drive around the problems whereas Jensons response was 'how can this car be so bad?' this car being the Brawn with DD advantage that had trounced the field a week earlier
McLaren need to work a lot harder on Jensons car, get as much testing and development as possible, they know by now what Jenson requires out of a car and they should have made sure he has it. Expecting him to suddenly start driving around problems would be silly and unfair to Jenson who to be fair is handling this situation with dignity. So less corporate events instead of track time like the Mugello affair
Come on McLaren, do not leave a driver of the quality of Button dangling in no mans land, its their job to provide the car he can do well in, they obviously havent
So what we will see is Jenson driving around procession style not pushing too hard to avoid crashing out, this however means that he will not progress through a field with drivers ahead of him and in cars closer to his than in 2011
So I dont think there is anything wrong or that Jenson has lost his talent, its just that his way of driving is getting trounced by the fact that there are now about 10 drivers in cars close to him who are more willing to go faster despite the uncertainty surrounding the tyres
Lets not forget that Jenson has had identical issues most of his 13 year career, and it was only when his car was way faster than others that he did not face this problem of half the field more willing to drive around problems and uncertainty. we saw in the second half of 2009 for example that once the car became a little quirky, Reubens was much better. Why? because he was more willing to drive around the problems whereas Jensons response was 'how can this car be so bad?' this car being the Brawn with DD advantage that had trounced the field a week earlier
McLaren need to work a lot harder on Jensons car, get as much testing and development as possible, they know by now what Jenson requires out of a car and they should have made sure he has it. Expecting him to suddenly start driving around problems would be silly and unfair to Jenson who to be fair is handling this situation with dignity. So less corporate events instead of track time like the Mugello affair
Come on McLaren, do not leave a driver of the quality of Button dangling in no mans land, its their job to provide the car he can do well in, they obviously havent
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