Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton
- Thread starter Brogan
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Jenson and Lewis looked a pretty equal match for each other today. It's a shame about the gearbox issue as I have no doubt that Lewis' Saturday performance, which was better, would have secured him the second spot today. I doubt he would have caught Nico, though.
Despite the official results, I give this weekend to Lewis in respect of the driver comparison we are all engaged in here.
Great race from both drivers, though.
Despite the official results, I give this weekend to Lewis in respect of the driver comparison we are all engaged in here.
Great race from both drivers, though.
riskitall
Points Scorer
you say that,but jenson had a chance to win the race from 5th.so lewis from second would have had a better chance surely?
but rosberg was super quick in the race and quali,so he deserved his win in the end.
today tho was the first time ive seen lewis pit before jenson when jenson was ahead of him.
maybe the complaints got back to mclaren lol
Okay, has it occured to anyone claiming bias that the drivers also have a say in racing strategy? And that there is, amazingly, a word called no. It is a word used when you don't want to do something - in this case, pit on certain laps. And as far as I'm aware, F1 divers have choice when it comes to strategy. All this talk of discrimination (in terms of strategy) from the Mclaren management is, frankly, bull. They are a business, Mclaren (or any other team for that matter) make decisions only to increase their success on the racetrack. No team goes and makes decisions which deliberately hinder a driver's race.
Do any of them negatively impacts the team's position?
Renault telling Piquet to intentionally crash out of a race?
Nope, sorry, Renault was a winner there...
Cookinflatsix
Banned
JB seemed to be hinting afterwards that the wheel but issue prevented him from winning,
No JB it was your poor quali performance,
If he had started second where the car belonged he might have won, same with Lewis, as it is even without the wheel issue that Merc in Rosbergs hands wouldn't have been denied a win, I mean Rosberg finished 20 seconds ahead and the issue cost JB 10 secs maybe?
And at the end LH was right on his tail and he didn't really look like overhauling Nico
No JB it was your poor quali performance,
If he had started second where the car belonged he might have won, same with Lewis, as it is even without the wheel issue that Merc in Rosbergs hands wouldn't have been denied a win, I mean Rosberg finished 20 seconds ahead and the issue cost JB 10 secs maybe?
And at the end LH was right on his tail and he didn't really look like overhauling Nico
F1 is fully if/but compliant without a single chance of proving whether you're right.
I think Jenson's comments were based around the fact that had he not had a poor pit stop he would have returned to the track ahead of the train and so the 9/10 seconds lost in the pit were but a prt of his loss, but then, if the moon was made of cheese we'd be farming it now...
I think Jenson's comments were based around the fact that had he not had a poor pit stop he would have returned to the track ahead of the train and so the 9/10 seconds lost in the pit were but a prt of his loss, but then, if the moon was made of cheese we'd be farming it now...
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Ofcourse they are not purposefully trying to harm their chances or hinder one driver, my own suggestion is that the design of the pit wall operational process is flawed because you have two no1 drivers having on the fly strategy decisions made for them by a central control. This could lead to a a distortion of the task of giving both drivers strategies optimised for each one and competitive.
It could be that when there is a choice JB gets the straightforward option and LH gets the next best as it is assumed he is more able to drive round problems
Example: lap x, master strategist thinks of pitting JB first but it's not ideal, JB prefers ideal, and so strategist thinking of the team and not each driver brings LH in first and JB second, this way the team have better chances of more points but it means LH has to get the difficult tasks
Let's try and forget about conspiracies or nobbling of drivers, Mclaren have dropped countless points by seeming to always have rigid textbook strategies with no sign of street smarts when it comes to changing these on the fly in the race when actual conditions deviate from those predicted by the Crays before the race
Just my humble opinion which might be tainted with bias as I think LH is one of the best drivers and is constantly let down by quali decisions, pitting etc etc ( JB as well btw but not as much as he needs more perfect conditions and might get a special consideration for this)
So please let's stay on topic, this is JB vs LH, not a place to moan about conspiracies or to pour scorn on those who dare to risk ridicule by articulating opinions about the dynamic within the team and the two drivers
The primary aim of a team is to enable itself to finish in the best position possible, in the race and the championship. Certainly, some drivers are consequently hindered, however no teams deliberately hinder a driver for the sake of it.
The loss of sponsors and banning of team personnel negatively impacted the team.
Perry McCarthy consistently being given substandard equipment while at Andrea Moda because the owner didn't want him in the team is also an example of a team deliberately hampering one of their drivers. A famous moment being when they sent him out in qualifying at Silverstone on wet tyres on a dry track, or when they failed to wake him up for qualifying in Spain because if he didn't turn up they could apply to the FIA and replace him with Enrico Bertaggia the pay driver they wanted.
They won the race. And they would have got away with it had it not been for those pesky Piquet kids.
Cookinflatsix
Banned
Has anyone suggested a driver has been hindered just for the same of it here?
But they didn't get away with it and there clearly was a negative impact on the team who ultimately saw the exit of Renault at the gain of RBR
Ah, I thought you meant based on the information at hand when the decision was made rather than with the benefit of hindsight.
My mistake!
Cookinflatsix
Banned
The point is that in F1 history teams have hindered one driver, probably never with the intention of losing sponsors or reputation
Wether they got away with it or it cost them reputation or sponsors is irrelevant
Wether they got away with it or it cost them reputation or sponsors is irrelevant
But the point I was making was that their decisions were only to benefit the team, never simply to spite a driver.
OK number 2 drivers may have second choice on kit, but the team always compete for championship points first, never for the moral high ground over their drivers.
OK number 2 drivers may have second choice on kit, but the team always compete for championship points first, never for the moral high ground over their drivers.
Mclaren have said both of their drivers are treated equally, they are a respectable formula 1 team, not an amateur, corrupt outfit. Whilst I respect your opinion, I feel that it's a bit silly to suggest that Lewis always gets less-than-optimum strategies compared to Button just because he is a perceived better driver. A variety of circumstances can affect the different strategies - Jenson, as well as Lewis, can also get 'worse' strategies. As for the pit structure, the main point of this co-ordinated strategy thing is to promote a closer relationship between the two drivers and their engineers, far ether this way than having both sides of the garage completely sepent ate from each other, only conveying with each other through someone like the team principal. I'm sure both drivers get a similar number of 'ideal' strategies, people on this thread seem to gloss over Lewis' great wins and strategies, compared to Button's awful one.
I think that Lewis is one of the best drivers in F1 today, however, he has to apportion some of the blame for as you say, quali decisions and pit stops.
A for staying on topic,I am only responding to a silly accusation of the team somehow constantly impeding Lewis' race. In future I think we should all stay on topic, after all, this is the JB vs LH thread, but from the recent posts placed up here the thread could be more appropriately named "It's never Lewis' fault when he gets beaten by Button, it's always the team." After all, the only people in a team who can really change the race are the drivers, they are the people drivin the car.
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