Felipe Massa

Brilliant driver on his day but is he championship material?

In 2008 he proved he was but thats only one occassion, plus that season the Ferrari TBH was a bit quicker and won more races that season. In 2009 he nearly suffered a career ending head-injury and since coming to back to the grid he hasn't really shown that promise he did in 2008.

Don't get me wrong he's a driver i very much like, but i do wonder if he'll be a title challenger again for Ferrari season in season out or if he'll stay at Ferrari much longer?

Whats your thoughts on Massa?

 

[gethinceri]

No, I'm sorry, Felipe is not a great enough driver to make any of those teams any better. If he'd been coming up, possibly, on his way down, no.

 

[RasputinLives]

I dunno. Massa was pretty unbeatable when you got him in the right mood and place against pretty hot opposition. Just look at his 2007 weekend in Turkey.

If he can be focused right (and I don't believe Ferrari is the place for that) he could probably do some of the midfield teams a lot of good.

 

[Il_leone]

A wildcard in this is if Honda wants a Brazilian driver maybe get him to go to Mclaren in 2015
That depends if he is still in F1 off course

How about a swap with Di Resta then?

Or worse Ferrari dump him to Marussia not Sauber

 

[RasputinLives]

There you go with that imaginary Honda Brazilian link again. Just because Honda have had brazilian drivers doesn't mean they actively look for them.

I don't see Massa as a Mclaren man. Marussia on the other hand would be lucky to have them.

Wouldn't it be funny if he did go to Marussia and they produce a pearler of a car to go with the Ferrari engine, suddenly Massa's rep would shoot up.

 

[teabagyokel]

Maybe a slightly deaf person could be told to recruit Felipe Nasr...

 

[cider_and_toast]

The big problem for a lot of teams is that once they go "pay driver" it's very difficult to get out of that mind set. The pay driver (unless they are very lucky) will bring a budget but not score a great deal of points. Who is willing to risk losing the financial input for a season in the hope that by seasons end there non-pay driver will have scored enough to make up the deficit in Bernie payouts and more?

There would be a lot of teams who would like a driver of Massa's experience and general ability who would be worried about how much they would have to pay him.

Teams like Force India, Lotus(Renault) and Sauber are having financial issue to varying degrees. I don't think Caterham and Marrusia are in a position to afford him and Torro Rosso want young drivers to pretend they are developing a Red Bull young driver program.

Williams would be an interesting choice but again, that would mean losing the sponsorship brought by their drivers.

It's a tough time for Massa.

 

[gethinceri]

Yep, it sure is a tough time for the multi millionaire.
Fuck, he'd give anything to swap places with me.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Stupid boy,

I meant in relation to the sport.

As you say, he's never going to have to work again if he doesn't feel like it.

 

[Il_leone]

RasputinLives

No Massa is not a Mclaren man but Honda either prefer a Japanese driver or a Brazilian ( an honary Japanese because of ancestral roots)

Certainly when Honda came into F1 - They asked Williams to sign Piquet and expect him to be No 1

When HOnda went to Mclaren it was a choice of Piquet or Senna - Brazilians


When Honda came back into F1 as a full engine not Mugen Honda they had Zonta at BAR as the Brazilian but Sato was doing the testing

When Jordan got the Honda engine they had to put Sato in one of the cars

When BAR replaced with Villeneuve it was first with Sato - Japanese but then when he was replaced they opted for a Brazilian - Rubens

Who in turn was going to be replaced by Di Grassi or Senna another Brazilian



--------------------------------------------

Would Ferrari give Marussia 2nd rate engines then if they were getting beat like they did with Minardi

 

[FB]

Ah, Felipe filling up a seat which could be filled by an exciting young driver who could move the sport forwards. Fantastic, thus it ever was.

 

[Il_leone]

FB Reminds me of Gerhard Berger who was in F1 too long for people's liking but then Berger knew how to get around the politics of F1

Massa does not have that luxury unless some powerful sponsor backs him that would even make Ferrari show some leniency

 

[cider_and_toast]

Williams signed Piquet in 86 because he was a double world champion and they needed a driver to partner Mansell who at that time had only won two races up to that point. Also, Williams first landed the Honda engine at the back end of 83 so between then and when Piquet signed it was driven around by a Brit, a Fin and a Frenchman.

Senna was signed by McLaren because they knew he was the next big thing. Piquet went to Lotus because it seemed like the right move at the time and Honda's man was already installed in the team in the shape of Satoru Nakajima.

I don't think the Zonta or Rubens signings had anything to do with Honda.

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast

Williams promised Honda they would sign Piquet and make him No 1 as they wished . Piquet did not strike me as typical Williams driver . In fact Rosberg was the one to make way

- Piquet was not available at the time

Mclaren had a choice of Piquet or Senna as Ron asked Prost for his decision

BAR - they had Sato to be the tester, Rubens being Brazilian does sometimes soften the blow if it were not Japanese although Sato being dropped caused outrage in Japan

Having said that I don;t expect Massa to be around in F1 in 2015 though so Honda will have to wait for another quick Brazilian

 

[RasputinLives]

Il_leone if your honda/brazilian theory is a fact then I wore my red spotted boxer shorts during the British GP and the Hungarian GP but not during the German one. Therefore its fact that Vettel doesn't win races when I wear my red spotted boxer shorts. Unarguable fact.

As for Massa, there is a little part of me that hoped he'd announce his retirement, have a grand old send off at Brazil and be waved off with the respect he deserves.

 

[cider_and_toast]

To add to the debate on this, I've come across these words from Lotus team manager Peter Warr with regards to Senna, Piquet and Honda: (extracts from Team Lotus - My view from the pit wall by Peter Warr)

"What he (Senna) needed was to put in place a set-up that would give him the consistent results he needed to take the World Championship, His relationship with Honda had quickly become extremely close"

"One can imagine the awe in which they held Ayrton"

"Ayrton got to work on putting Honda engines into McLaren cars for next year, something that was not too difficult to achieve. The Honda heirarchy were just as much slaves to his wishes as everyone else was"

From the Camel Sponsorship point of view on signing Piquet:

Camel's Dennis Lee "I did the entire negotiation with him (Warr) in a day long saga of discussion, calls to Japan for assrances that Honda engines would continue to be available"

"The team retained Nakajima and the Honda engines but the engineer who agreed to supply the engines to both McLaren and Lotus lost his job"

So you can get from that, and I have not altered or lifted these quotes out of context, that the reason Honda switched to McLaren had everything to do with Senna being skilled at understanding what made the company tick and how to get the best out of a political situation and nothing to do with him being Brazilian. Furthermore, the reason Honda stayed with Lotus had nothing to do with the signing of Piquet but everything to do with a buisness arangement negotiated through the sponsor, the retention of Nakajima and from the sounds of it, an engineer going out on a limb. Above all, it had nothing to do with the signing of Piquet.

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast

This is news to me but we can only speculate what if Piquet had gone to Mclaren then? which had been Ron's other choice


However Honda did love Senna despite his demands they worshipped him which annoyed Prost

RasputinLives

Well there are not any quick Brazilians around for a start unless Honda tell Mclaren we want Bruno Senna ! Not a chance

Massa should retire I don;t see any other teams wanting to take him and for him to make a good swansong except Williams with Pat Symonds may not be a bad move

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast

Lotus had an older spec Honda engines not the latest engines

Before Senna came along , HOnda wanted Piquet at Williams and to be No 1 given his status and paid most of his wages despite Rosberg having a great season in 1985 and certainly would have been a good title challenger in 1986. Frank's accident changed things it has to be said but losing the drivers to Prost was even more galling for Honda to accept

It was one of the reasons why Honda left Williams for Mclaren. Senna did apparently get Peter Warr to tear up the engine deal with Renault and tell them to get Honda engines.
No one knew how special he was and to Prost' regret for his career at Mclaren and helped elevate Honda's reputation

 

[cider_and_toast]

Sorry Il_leone , that's simply not true for 1988. Lotus had exactly the same spec Honda engines as McLaren.

And "no one knew how special Senna was", Really ?? The guy almost won the 1984 Monaco GP in a Toleman and was winning races for Lotus, left, right and centre. Come on. Ron Dennis was courting him throughout 87 to sign for McLaren. I think the whole world knew how special Senna was.

I think this picture says it all.

Furthermore, Rosberg chose to leave Williams for McLaren at the end of 85 and by then Williams had been running Honda engines for over 2 years. Piquet was available and a double world champion, that had nothing to do with engines.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think that's called "Doing a Reubens"

Well where do you go when you've raced for a top team and have been told you are the defacto Number 2 if he want's to stay in F1 then he has to move down the grid, he has no other choice....

Let us not forget that after Ferrari, Rubens ended up in a team that won both titles, not that he made the most of it.....

 

[Mephistopheles]

No, I'm sorry, Felipe is not a great enough driver to make any of those teams any better. If he'd been coming up, possibly, on his way down, no.

Let me put a warm comforting arm around you shoulder my boy, and say that given the right environment and a bit of love Massa is an extremely quick and a very capable driver....

Here let me buy you a vodka martini, extremely dry, one olive, stirred not shaken......

Delicious...