Bahrain GP Debate

If I may just add my twopence worths

Its a similar situation to Iran in the 70s when the ruling royal class of the Shah was overthrown by the strict and religious clerics

Is one better than the other? who knows? depends on who you are, however if a majority of people in the country choose the 'strict' fundamentalist cleric route over the 'spoilt 'rich ruling minority with western sympathy, good for them, but lets not be hypocritical about why we are taking one side over the other

Ok the ruling elite have acted inhumanely towards protesters, if the revolution succeeds and they overthrow the Government do we really think they will just pack off the deposed rulers on holiday with some spending money?

Is it really our business? or is it self interest to do with the stability of the price of petrol we fill our 4x4s?

What makes my blood boil is how the approach of F1 and other parties with interests in the country, start by working out what is in their own best interest economically then use that to justify a moral standpoint, once the media get involved its only a matter of time before the masses are screaming for justice for whatever cause it is

So I also agree to an extent that the majority should have their way no matter how it turns out in future

Im just glade we can see some racing this weekend
 
I promised no to do this, but completely off topic...

I remember the Iranian revolution when the local populace placed Khomeini in power and it was deemed reasonable to place a Fatwa on a British citizen that every Muslim worlwide was deemed to have a responsibility to carry out.

If the reveolution had simply changed power and local behaviour who knows what would have happened, but Khomeini invented the concept that a Muslim could be feared for his religion. Who knows how much of today's world position is down to that simple local revolution.
 
Cookinflatsix........I agree with much of what you say. No it's not our business. Too often the West views other countries problems through the culture of Western eyes and gets it completely wrong. This in some ways this is completely off topic, in other ways it's not so I'll say it anyway. My life was impacted by the Vietnam War. Britain had the good sense to stay out of it. We were told by the Americans how China was going to back Ho Chi Min in a push through the Golden Triangle, toppling Cambodia, Laos, and ultimately Thailand. 60,000 or so American, Australian and New Zealand lives later, not to mention 3 million Cambodians exterminated, a direct result of the conflict in Vietnam, we all realized North Vietnam had no ambitions beyond its own borders. What a terrible waste of life. The reason I have added this to the discussion is the West is constantly getting itself involved in other peoples conflicts in the belief it knows what's best. It rarely does. My family has paid a terrible price in the worst possible way for the conflict in Iraq. That's a war that would almost certainly have resolved itself without the Wests involvement. Hussein was seen as a threat to the Saudi's but there's no way he would have been allowed to push out of Kuwait into Saudi Arabia. Egypt would have come to the Saudi's aid and the combined power of those two countries would have crushed Iraq, considering it was already weakened by a decade long war with Iran. Without the Wests involvement we almost certainly wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. The point of my ramblings. I just wish the West would stay out of cultures it knows little about. Western thinking doesn't transport itself comfortably into a Middle Eastern culture, or into Asian culture as far as that goes. Sorry if this has seemed off topic but my belief is Bahrain needs to be able to resolve its difficulties without other distractions and at the moment F1 is not proving to be helpful. As far as Iran wanting to turn Bahrain into an Islamic state. A bit like we were told the North Vietnamese would take over Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand.
 
Just because Bahrain hasn't been on the front pages of our increasingly zenophobic and islamophobic media does not mean it is going unreported. It is an indictment of our media how it is manuplated more than ever by the interests of our elitist forms of leadership (business or political) that what is happening there is simply not being reported to us.

With regard to Iran, it's interesting that Press TV has disappeared from satellite UK TV (still available on the internet) as "the West" ramps up its anti-Iran regime rhetoric. Reception of Aljazeera English is more often than not pixelated and sound distorted, making it vertually unwatchable. A conspiracy theorists delight.

We hear fairly often about Iranian backed terrorist plots being thwarted or carried out. The question I would ask of those who are happy to promote ths propaganda is : "When was the last time you read, heard or saw verified revelations of an actual prosecution where this was proven to be the case?"

And what about this support that Iran is giving the opposition in Bahrain? What bloody tosh! Terrifyingly, if we are to believe what we are seeing, their support seems to amount to supplying the extremist elements with the petrol bombs!Where are the massive Iranian made bombs going off in Sunni mosques and neighbourhoods? Where are the suicide bombers blowing themselves up with Iranian made explosives at check-points and government buildings? There aren't any. If there were it would be all over our TV screens and front pages, day after day, week after week.

What we do know is this. There is Saudi military on the streets enforcing what can only be described as a state of marshal law. The Saudi's are backing up a Bahraini security force largely made up of Pakistani migrant soldiers who, if it were anywhere else we'd call mercenaries. Meanwhile, rifts are tearing the Sunni and Shia further apart than ever with the result that the extremist elements of both are engaged in thuggery in each others neighbourhoods. That is a direct consequence of the Bahrain governement's confrontational approach, which could have been avoided had they chosen to take a diplomatic approach rather than call in the Saudi tanks and armour.

As for whether the GP should happen. Too late now, whichever side of the debate one is on. I'm fortunate. I vowed to boycott this one and as I don't have Sky and can't stand highlights that will be easy.

Final word. Don't rely on our media to give one a balanced view. That's a lost cause. Get informed by challenging what you and I thought we knew by checking out other sources and sift the available evidence for oneself. I urge this caution since there are elements in the US. Israeli and UK governments that are pushing for war with Iran. The situation is not dissimilar to Iraq. When we go in looking for Iran's complicity in international terrorism and their nuclear bomb, remember the farce that was WMD's.

There. Don't worry, I'll bore you no further with my rant for I will contribute to this thread only this once. Anyone who goads me will be added to my ignore list unless they are extremely funny.

Fenders (after a tough week at work):(
 
bahrain.jpg




http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/04/20124201553269713.html Security forces use tear gas to end march against Grand Prix race as crown prince confirms Sunday's race will go ahead.
Thousands of anti-government protesters have been dispersed after flooding a major highway in Bahrain demanding a halt to the Formula One race on the first day of its practice runs ahead of Sunday's race.
The move cames as the Gulf kingdom's crown prince vowed that the country's premier sporting event would go ahead.
Bahraini authorities stepped up security around the Formula One circuit on Friday after clashes between protesters and security forces intensified ahead of the Grand Prix.
Click to expand
 
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16212342

"Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone said...I don't want to be rude at all, but I think the Prince has been a little bit silly putting the race on because he's given the protesters the incredible platform for all you guys to talk to them"
Click to expand

Typical Bernie, as soon as it kicks off, "it's nowt to do with me Guv" despite saying only a few days ago that there were no problems at all and thought it was a "silly question" when asked if he was going to Bahrain.:whistle:
 
I think that is the point I was making too :)

Because this race is going ahead, Bahrain is the lead item on the ten oclock news with comments from both the PM and opposition leaders on the issues there. It's all over CTA and CNN too ;)

What I have seen shows the regime in a very poor light. Does that mean the race should never have happened? Quite the opposite - its only because the race is on that there is so much attention. I'd wager that this race is actually going to accelerate reform.
 
I have to say im getting sick of all these people ripping into F1 as a whole for them being in Bahrain. I know there are some people who have had strong views for some time and I respect that. But typically a lot of these people getting on their high horse, whether it be normal people or even politicians, have never mentioned anything about it before, even in the build up to the race and now that they're in Bahrain they suddenly jump on the ship of saying it should be called off or that F1 is terrible for going. Quite frankly, it's ridiculous. Sure there's problems out there but there's problems in most places in the world and you don't suddenly stop all normal activity. If anything, some normality and something that will boost the economy and give the average honest citizen a bit of money after a hard days work, is a great thing. Lots of other sports such as Golf and concerts with pop artists have still gone ahead out there with no negative media, yet when it comes to F1 everything is supposedly different.

What annoys the hell out of me is people who didn't even know much about Bahrain before and who have now decided they know it all and that F1 is wrong for going there. If you cared so much you'd have an opinion before right? This is not directed at anyone on this forum, just to be completely clear. To top it all up we have Ed Miliband himself now trying to call it off. This epitomizes the issue. Let me assure you, Ed Miliband does not give a monkeys about what is going on in Bahrain with regard to F1 being there. If he did he would have been much more vocal prior to this event happening. The only reason he has got on board now and said it should be called off is because he is saying "the government should make their view clear". In other words he is giving himself some ammunition so that if anything does go wrong in Bahrain he can turn around and accuse the government of being incompetent. In other words he doesn't care about the situation in Bahrain and is just using the situation as a bit of potential political momentum. Do I need say anymore?

We're all sad to see the situation in Bahrain and I really do feel for the people out there. But c'mon if they called off the F1 race, what good would it actually do for the country? If they leave it on then sure they may have a few more riots but will it make it any worse in the long run? No.

Look at all the riots back in our country last year (for those who live in England). To me this had far less reasoning and justification and thus in a sense was more severe as it was complete and utter criminal behavior that was unjustified compared to anger and opinion provided against government legislation and philosophy. Things need to be put into context.
 
I think one has recognize two principles:
1) Protests do not mean something is unpopular. In fact protesters are generally a minority. It is not fair to punish the majority for the sake of a minority.
2) Even if a majority of Bahrainis felt the race was a distraction from the political debate, F1 is not a political event. Closing down non political activities because of political sentiment is not something we should accept either. It would be the equivalent of ordering a moratorium on mosques in the aftermath of 9/11.

That said people should be free to do whatever they want, and the F1 teams have been free to not attend, and their employees have also been allowed to leave if they wish. That seems fair to me.
 
Kewee. I actually think you are the one arguing with everyone. You also don't seem to understand my point if you think its a side issue.

If you read what I was saying I was agreeing with you the race should be off. I just think more should be done to be effective.
 
I've said before and I'll say it again politicians should keep their ****ing noses out of sport, stupid bloody politicians banging on about canceling the race urging sponsors to boycott it asking the british drivers to boycott it not because they care about what is going on they are just bleating on because they think it is the popular thing to say.

They stick there unwanted noses in every other aspect of our lives they can just bloody well leave sport and F1 in particular alone, where were they when Silverstone was asking for money to keep Formula one in Briton no where despite Formula one generates masses of cash for the country.

The Bahrain grand prix brings in 140 million pounds worth of revenue for that country not to mention world wide recognition.

F1 is not and never should be a political arena for back benchers to get their soap boxes out and shout bollocks for their own gain, if they don't like what is going on over there then they should stop buying their oil and put up trade embargoes.
 
RasputinLives said:
Kewee. I actually think you are the one arguing with everyone. You also don't seem to understand my point if you think its a side issue.

If you read what I was saying I was agreeing with you the race should be off. I just think more should be done to be effective.
Click to expand

I'm not arguing with anyone, and going by the number of likes I've received many agree with me, I'm just voicing an opinion like everyone else and I do understand your point, and I AGREE WITH YOU, I just feel concentrating on the financial affairs of teams draws attention away from the human right issues and how the GP is impacting on them.
 
I've decided to make one last posting on this thread simply because after Sunday, for many, this topic will become yesterdays news, at least on an F1 forum. I only intend mentioning facts as I see them.
Has Formula 1's decision to go to Bahrain given the Shia people a point of focus for their voices to be heard? Yes.
Has Formula 1's very presence in Bahrain intensified those protests? Yes.
Have those intensified protests lead to more arrests, more people thrown in prison, and more lives put at risk by the security forces? Yes.
Will these intensified protests cost lives that may not otherwise have been lost? Almost certainly.
Does Formula 1's presence in Bahrain and the role it has played in intensifying these protests mean it should accept some of the responsibility for the worsening situation? Absolutely it should.
Should Sport and Politics mix? I'm sure everyone would love to say no they shouldn't. Unfortunately by deciding to go to Bahrain Formula 1 placed itself right in the middle of Bahrains problems and in doing so, and considering the role it has played in intensifying the cry for change, has allowed itself, unintentionally, to become part of the problem. Sad but true. So should sport and politics mix, sadly they can't be separated in this case. The FIA have done themselves no favors in the last few days and have tarnished F1's image with their decision making. :(

I for one am looking forward to Spain. To all those who have got fed up with me along with those who have supported me with likes. :friends:
 

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