Bahrain GP Debate

[P1]

There are acceptable and unacceptable ways to protest. And inconveniencing sports fans is not a legitimate method of protest.

Further, I think all those who think That F1 shouldn't race in Bahrain, are behaving in a completely myopic way.

Next week when F1 is gone from Bahrain, the political situation there will be the same. British, European and American companies will continue to do business there. We will maintain diplomatic relations. But there will be no outrage. Where will your outrage be then?

The fact that we maintain trade relationships with this country is much more harmful than one F1 event. Who do you think supplies Mercedes cars to Bahraini authorities? It is European and American trade, weapons sales, transportation and other supplies that keep the government in power.

The reality is that we are a democracy. We have not placed pressure on our politicians to do anything about Bahrain. We have been doing business there for months. And the outrage of the media and those on this board is just a passing fad, in a sea of apathy. The British people don't really care and neither do the Americans, Italians or the Germans.

So I think F1 is right to act in accordance with the policies of the countries of most of its teams. And I think those who object should try to convince the democracies of the West to adjust their policies on a level more meaningful than a race weekend!

 

[Kewee]

Batman......I don't recall voicing outrage, just stating a few facts as I see them, in fact I agree with a lot of what you say. One thing I would point out however is if your unemployed as a direct result of the ruling MINORITY, and have no say in your future, acceptable and unacceptable are somewhat meaningless.
As far as where my outrage will be, I take care of enough children in countries far worse off than mine to find plenty of reasons and places to voice outrage so I don't think you need to worry about my myopic views. I've had a passing fad in caring for children in third world countries for over twenty years now.

 

[P1]

Kewee - my post wasn't directed at you, so much as the broader community of people who have been opposing the grand prix.

 

[Kewee]

Kewee - my post wasn't directed at you, so much as the broader community of people who have been opposing the grand prix.

Acknowledged and appreciated Batman. I've been getting a bit of a hammering from some and I'm getting a bit sensitive. Thanks.

 

[jez101]

Kewee, I think you missed one very important question: will the publicity generated by the race lead to a better situation for Bahrainis in the medium and long term?

 

[Kewee]

Kewee, I think you missed one very important question: will the publicity generated by the race lead to a better situation for Bahrainis in the medium and long term?

I'd like to think so, but considering many of the protesters that were locked up last year are still in prison I doubt it. Don't make the mistake of thinking this society will act with the same compassion as we would expect in the West. Abdulhadi al Khawaja has received a life sentence for supposedly calling for the violent overthrow of the Monarchy. If you explore the news from many different sources you'll discover he's calling for increased democracy and greater rights for the Shia population through passive resistance. His role models are Nelson Mandela and Gandhi. His treatment in prison has been appalling. I'm guessing you missed the interview with his daughter on the BBC. The discrimination against the Shia is terrible. I'm not convinced the current leadership care enough to make any changes once they drop out of the news again. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[teabagyokel]

Kewee - the one thing we do know is that if the West remains oblivious and the protests are not made, it will not get better for the Bahrainis.

Its a difficult situation, but all in all I don't think there is an advantage to any cancellation politically (the 2011 cancellation achieved nothing), albeit it maybe should have been off on safety grounds.

 

[Kewee]

Kewee - the one thing we do know is that if the West remains oblivious and the protests are not made, it will not get better for the Bahrainis.

Its a difficult situation, but all in all I don't think there is an advantage to any cancellation politically (the 2011 cancellation achieved nothing), albeit it maybe should have been off on safety grounds.

One thing I'm sure of, and this doesn't just apply to Bahrain. Change can never be forced on one country by another. Lasting change can only come from within. As an example, anyone that thinks the democracies, set up by the coalitions in Iraq and Afghanistan are going to last will be sorely disappointed. Constitutional Monarchies such as that in Bahrain are virtually impossible to change. We can only hope they choose to make changes from within but they won't be pressured, you can be sure of that.

 

[teabagyokel]

Kewee - Depends who is sending weaponry to who.

 

[Brogan]

Kewee You have already been asked but please see this thread about quoting the post directly above yours.

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/block-quoting-posts.4873/page-3#post-124308

You have done it for your last three posts in this thread.

 

[Kewee]

teabagyokel.........Don't think any of the major players in the Middle East will be remotely interested in even having an arms length involvement in Bahrains affairs. They've all got far more serious problems of their own. Iran for example are far to busy trying to figure out how to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. They know the importance of Bahrain to the West and if they did decide to have a little meddle in the Bahrainian situation America will probably distract them a wee bit by dropping an enormous bomb in their nuclear play pen in the middle of the Iranian desert. Don't count against it. If the Republicans win the upcoming Presidential elections they're bound to do something stupid, they usually do. The hole they'll create in the Iranian desert will be nowhere near as big as the hole they create back home, then they'll have to spend the next 10 plus years digging themselves out of it if you get my drift. Better to let Israel take care of the Iranian problem, they're quite good at that sort of thing.

 

[Kewee]

Brogan......Already stopped. They were only a couple of lines, sorry one was four, didn't think it was an issue when they were only short quotes.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Kewee

Have you spent much time in Bahrain, the Middle East, or the US for that matter? Just curious.

 

[Kewee]

KekeTheKing.........I've lived in a multitude of cultures, Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic. I've lived on a houseboat in Kashmir, travelled through the Northwest Frontier of Pakistan staying in Peshawar, continuing on through the Khyber Pass to Afghanistan. I've travelled extensively in India and Pakistan. I was trapped in the Middle East during the Iranian/Iraqi war for longer than I cared for, and took advantage of a bad situation by traveling all over Syria. I'm in constant contact with a close friend who lives in Haifa in Israel. I've spent many months in Turkey. I was detained by the Russians in Prague during the Soviet occupation. I've left a lot of countries out including Thailand and Nepal but in answer to your question, no, I've never been to Bahrain.
Many won't agree with my opinions, I don't expect them to, but they're opinions that have been formed over many years spending time on the ground with wonderful people, who are far worse off than me materially, but people with a spiritual wealth I can only dream of. One other thing, and I have no intention of going into details but I lost a family member in Iraq. Killed in an ambush in the early days of the war. He only went there to help them rebuild after the bombing campaign. I not only have opinions I've felt pain arriving at them. That's why I feel for the people of Bahrain and why I continue to try to do something for children suffering hardship regardless of their country or religion.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Wow. Thanks for your reply.

 

[teabagyokel]

That's why I feel for the people of Bahrain and why I continue to try to do something for children suffering hardship regardless of their country or religion.

I wish you all the luck in the world with what sounds an incredibly noble endeavour.

 

[Kewee]

Thanks teabagyokel.........I need all the luck I can get at the moment. Business is tough on this side of the world, mind you it is everywhere. Still, you can only keep trying.

 

[sportsman]

Somewhat similair to Kewee I have lived and worked in many foreign countries.From 1989 after the fall of the Soviet Union I have lived and worked in Eastern Europe.I have seen protests in the Baltic countries violently suppressed by Russia troops against mostly unarmed protesters.I proudly stood in the Baltic chain http://balticchaintour.com/baltic-chain-story/ staring down the barrel of Russian tank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17810477
A team from Channel Four News, led by foreign correspondent Jonathan Miller, have been arrested and are being deported from Bahrain.
The journalists had been denied media accreditation to report on protests surrounding the Formula One Grand Prix, but entered the country as tourists.
They were arrested, taken to the airport and are awaiting deportation.
Mr Miller told BBC Radio 5 Live they were pursued by riot police officers and a helicopter prior to arrest.
He was detained along with cameraman Joe Sheffer and producer Dave Fuller.
He said: "We were in a particular village where we were filming a small demonstration of mostly kids when we realised that we were being monitored by a police helicopter.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Just to tie a bow on the Bahrain talk until next year, I'd like to post Joe Saward's take on the event.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/on-the-front-line-at-starbucks/

What I found when I got to Bahrain was that, yes, there are problems, but they were far less widespread than the reports have suggested. We spent three days criss-crossing the country on different routes, twice each day. We never saw a single protester, let alone a rioter. We saw a lot of police cars, but only one armoured car. We saw no burning tyres, smelled no tear gas. We even went to some of the hotspots such as the old Pearl Roundabout, but all was quiet. But that was not the message that was sent out around the world. Bahrain and Formula 1 was on the front pages of newspapers everywhere, with lurid reports and ringing condemnations. A lot of the F1 journalists who work for newspapers were asked by their employers to go and find the trouble. They got very excited about being involved in something a bit different.​

 

[jez101]

Mark Hughes says something very similar in Autosport this week.