Bahrain GP Debate

[RasputinLives]

Have to say I've seen it quoted on many times from many different sources on here that Mclaren are 50% Bahrainian owned so we weren't just going on a wikipedia stat.

Kewee you keep talking about business independence etc etc btu I don't see a difference. The Bahrain Royal family are profiting from a team within F1 and that money goes towards propping up the regime you're so much against. In fact I'm sure it goes a lot further to support the regime you're against then the Grand Prix they hold due to the only profits coming from that going to Bernie and co.

It would not be the first sports organisation that had been sanctioned against due to its owners. Only a few years ago the individual who owner Manchester City was forced to sell the club after he was deemed not a fit and proper individual by the FA due to his political situation in his home country of Thailand. Mr Briatore was threaterned with removal from Queens Park Rangers after the Singapore incident. There are many more examples.

Don't you feel that if your calling for the boycott of the Bahrain GP then you should also be calling for the banning of any team funded by money from the regime your protesting against? If sanctions were taken I have no doubt that Mclaren and any other team would quickly buy these individuals out and cast them adrift otherwise they would go down with them. Surely this would do more damage to the regime than merely not bringing a Grand Prix to the country.

This atitude of business is business seems at odds with your protest.

 

[FB]

Kewee

I've had some pointless arguments on here with various people and I'm not about to start another one about whether Ron Dennis owns 49 or 51% of Mclaren share holdings. This is a subject neither of us know the truth of but only one of us has provided any information to support their belief (i.e me). So, frankly, I'll just leave it there as you obviously know best.

 

[sportsman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17761698
Bahraini security forces have fired stun grenades at protesters outside a cultural exhibition in Manama ahead of Sunday's Formula 1 Grand Prix.
A local journalist told the BBC the demonstrators in Old Manama were shouting "Down, down, F1" and demanding the release of Abdulhadi al-Khawaja.
The activist has been on hunger strike in prison for more than two months.
Mr Khawaja's lawyer earlier told the BBC that his client had removed the intravenous drip keeping him alive.
The 52-year-old told his wife on Tuesday afternoon that he was also now refusing anything but water, Mohammed al-Jishi said

 

[Kewee]

FB...... I'm not suggesting I know best. Just as you, I said no one knows how McLaren are structured so none if us are qualified to comment. I didn't start the argument on this thread and would much sooner be discussing something else, in fact I responded to you a couple of pages back but received no response. In fairness to you, no doubt you could tell I was fairly heated on the topic of Bahrain and chose not to respond. Fair enough.
To all Moderators and Staff Members.......When an issue such as Bahrain rears its head it's worth remembering the old saying, 'never discuss politics or religion'. What you've read on this thread is a perfect example of what happens. People can't help but get involved and argue, and yes, I'm no better.

 

[Sndan]

Formula 1's moral dilemma in Bahrain

you love to watch the games ... ya on people blood

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17749536

 

[Sndan]

I live near Bahrain and what is happening from all the world that was all what it was talking about is freedom .... but where are them now ?! nothing they keep complete sielent ..... thay talk about what makes there income better ,,, non humatarian at all

there is no world sociaty

 

[Kewee]

Rasputin........I really can't add anything other than what I've already said. If you can't see the difference between one F1 team and the entire Formula one community then we will just go round in circles. I've never viewed this a a protest as such, though I know that's splitting hairs. I simply see it as F1 choosing not to go to Bahrain until the political situation settles down somewhat for the good of all concerned, including the people of Bahrain.
FB has suggested the teams and drivers could stage a protest themselves. Personally I believe this would be incredibly unfair on them. They would be being asked to become involved in the politics of a region many of them may know very little about. Even if they did understand the situation many of them would feel uncomfortable about becoming involved in such a direct way, which brings me back to the very real difference between McLarens financial link to the region and FOM's decisions affecting the entire Formula One community. McLarens links to the region don't impact on anyone but themselves and if those links prove to be unwise they will pay a price for that.
There is another GP I don't feel comfortable with also and people on this site will know the GP I'm talking about and the reasons I makes me feel uncomfortable, but I won't go into that here. For me personally, I always run my business with a social conscience which I feel is something that takes a backward step in F1 too often. Of course I don't have to watch but I will because like most of us, I'm fanatical about F1 and yes, I know that makes me a hypocrite.

 

[Speshal]

 

[sportsman]

This same John Yates said a few days ago that he felt safer in Bahrain than in London.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/18/bahrain-formula-one-yates-safety
The government of Bahrain cannot guarantee the safety of Formula One teams and spectators at this Sunday's Bahrain Grand Prix as violence escalates in the Gulf kingdom, according to the British former police officer who is working on security at the track.
John Yates, the former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan police who is employed by the Bahrain government to advise on police reform, told the Guardian: "People say can we guarantee security. Of course we can't guarantee security. I'd be a fool to sit here and say that.
"Is it possible there might be an incursion on the track? Of course there is. It's an open event. Can you stop some idiot running onto the track? There have been other incidents of track incursions."
Yates also said police would retaliate with live rounds if necessary: "The police will have all the options you would expect. If the opposition started firing live ammunition, the police would respond with live," he said, adding: "But I don't think that's likely."

 

[Kewee]

Sportsman......We don't seem to have a lot of support on here in recent days. I'm on the other side of the world but I've just read of the young 13 year old girl whose father died in police custody last year. One of many stories that are absolutely heartbreaking. Maybe the decision makers in F1 should ask her if the GP should go ahead. Then again maybe one little girls loss wouldn't be considered important enough in the decision making process. Shame on them.

 

[Josh]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98957


So who thought it was a good idea to go to Bahrain?

 

[GermanF1]

This is more or less the same article from the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17767985

But I really think some people involved are pretty delusional:
Bahrain International Circuit chairman Zayed R Alzayani said: "They weren't targeted. They just happened to be there."
He added: "I think it's unfortunate. It's an issue of timing. It could happen in any place in the world really, getting caught up in a riot or a fight or anything."

Yeah right it happens to me twice or three times a month, nothing special about a Molotov Cocktail blowing up next to my car...

Honestly I just decided not to watch neither practice, quali or race this weekend. I don't know the last race I missed, but this is certainly going to be the next...People talking about firing with live ammunition in the context of any sports event is just ludicrous. Screw this race and screw those people who made it happen.

 

[FB]

My concern was for the safety of the team personnel and as it appears that this cannot be guaranteed I really don't think the race should be going ahead. The only positive (?) is that it does at least highlight the situation in Bahrain and move it back into the "Top 10" of news stories. I don't believe that the race going ahead or being cancelled would have made one iota of difference to the mind set of the rulers in Bahrain however.

 

[GermanF1]

I don't believe that the race going ahead or being cancelled would have made one iota of difference to the mind set of the rulers in Bahrain however.

You're certainly right about that. But it would have set an example to the world that violence and suppression isn't tolerated and not rewarded with a F1 race. I think Bernie really made a bad mistake here, which could easily backfire (even financially) if those protesters will use the GP to show the world their desperation.
Just imagine people running on the track trying to get run over by a car deliberately or being shot by police on Live-TV for the whole world to be seen. Even the police guy admitted that there is no safety guaranteed. Ridicolous!

 

[FB]

I appreciate Bernie has influence on where and when the races are staged but the ultimate decision here was made by the FIA so if we want to point the finger it should be at Jean Todt and his cronies.

 

[Kewee]

GermanF1......I just saw him interviewed on the BBC. He was the personification of arrogance. Very easy when your part of the minority Sunni elite and the voice of hundreds of the Shia majority have been silenced by being held in prison as political detainees, to spout off about how normal everything is. Amnesty International also don't make accusations of torture without having evidence. This whole episode is tragic and FOM and the FIA should be ashamed of themselves. It's been obvious to any thinking person for some time where this was going to lead.


FB.......You know we both come at this from different places. My concern has always been for the people of Bahrain. Something I'd like to mention. I have very real regrets for allowing myself to be dragged into a debate about McLarens finances. That was a move off topic by another member and I allowed myself to be led into the argument. That doesn't mean my opinions have changed at all, but it was a discussion that should have been moved to the post on teams. It had no relevance or place in the discussion on whether this GP should take place or not. One thing we can agree on is your last statement. This GP, whether it happens or not, won't make a scrap of difference to the mind set of the rulers in Bahrain which is one more reason this is so tragic for everyone involved.

 

[RasputinLives]

Just to clarify Kewee I am against the Grand Prix being in Bahrain but I'm suggesting its the tip of the iceberg and if you can't see how putting sanctions against individuals to incourage them to purge any supporters of the regime your protesting against from the F1 community would be a big step in the right direction I don't know how else to explain it?

Whats the point in the sport making a stand and saying "we're not coming to your country because of your regime" whilst still letting the regime prop itself up financially from the sport? none at all.

 

[Kewee]

Rasputin.......This post is purely about whether the GP should go ahead in Bahrain. Its about whether F1 as a collective organization should be in a country with serious human rights issues. How teams are financed is a side issue that has nothing to do with what is being discussed on this post. Something your missing is the various teams, and your argument has been related to McLaren, will continue to be financed from the same sources regardless of whether they are racing at Monaco, Silverstone, Canada or anywhere else, so if you want to discuss side issues such as this you should do so on the post titled Teams. On this post I'm only interested in discussing the merits or lack of them, of racing in Bahrain.

 

[RasputinLives]

Kewee. You can take issue with me and claim this is a thread for this and that etc etc and say who's on who's side but don't belittle my point. The regime you wish to protest against which is causing harm to these people and oppressing human rights is making money from the sport of F1. Now it doesn't matter if we don't ever go to Bahrain for a Grand Prix again to them they will still make a good deal of money from the sport. I don't care through which teams I just care that they are as currently the sport of F1 is supporting an oppressive regime and that too me is much bigger issue than whetehr the Grand Prix goes there or not. Yes the Grand Prix not taking place will get all the headlines but it won't be as effective as sanctioning those involved in the business side.

It'd be like wanting to protest against Addidas for them using child labour but still buying the shoes and just not wearing them. It wouldn't have any other effect other than making you feel like your doing something when in reality its a hollow gesture.

 

[sushifiesta]

The events of today are unfortunate, but it wasn't a targeted attack on F1 personnel. Whether F1 should be holding an event so close to riots is a big issue, but lets not pretend that similar things haven't happened in the recent past without any suggestion of the race not going ahead:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...p-Driver-Daniel-Toni-saves-F1-stars-life.html

P.S. Daily Mail happened to be the top result from my google search...