Ask The Apex

[Bill Boddy]

I think they do, but the reason they don't start with enough fuel to finish the race is because of the time penalty it would cost them in qualifying, so rather they will go slower later on in the race when it is likely they will have a margin over the driver behind.

What time penalty in qualifying? In Q3 they can run with as little or as much fuel as they like. They fill up with fuel between qualifying and the race, this is the second season of operating in this way.

The time penalty starts in the early part of the race. With sufficient fuel to complete the race at full speed the car would be very heavy and hence slow. Computer simulations show that fuelling a bit light, then having a fuel saving section between two full speed sections results in a faster race.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

What time penalty in qualifying? In Q3 they can run with as little or as much fuel as they like. They fill up with fuel between qualifying and the race, this is the second season of operating in this way.

The time penalty starts in the early part of the race. With sufficient fuel to complete the race at full speed the car would be very heavy and hence slow. Computer simulations show that fuelling a bit light, then having a fuel saving section between two full speed sections results in a faster race.

Oops don't know what I was thinking...

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Completely off topic but one of the Gemini astronauts had to relieve himself in his space suit whilst sitting on the gantry as the launch was delayed.

Also off topic, but I remember an Air Force pilot about 10 years ago having problems using his piddle pack and ultimately having to eject, destroying the F16 in the process

 

[Slyboogy]

I have a question...

Can a lapped car use the DRS when the driver is in the DRS zone behind the car that just lapped him?

Never seen it happen, but I remember Martin Brundle in commentray, mention that if any car in any position is one second behind another car, the driver is then allowed to use the DRS.

 

[Hamberg]

Yes they can.

 

[Bleu]

It happens other way round too. If driver is within a second of car he is lapping, he may use DRS. This could clearly been seen in Valencia race. I think it was Alonso using it just after coming out of his last pit stop

 

[Slyboogy]

Yes Bleu I know that one as I have seen it happen and I remember it being mentioned, but I wasn't sure that the lapped car can then use it.

 

[Brogan]

Would there be any point?

They'd only have to move over again due to blue flags.

 

[Slyboogy]

Well they can use it to pull away from the car behind, especially in the midfield, like in Valencia where 3-4 cars where running so close and only 1.5s covering them all.

 

[Bill Boddy]

It does seem to be a bit odd, the driver is already getting the advantage of the blue flags. It is a matter of luck whether or not this happens in the DRS zone and unfair to a driver who is 1.1 seconds behind the overtaker.

 

[Hamberg]

Would there be any point?

They'd only have to move over again due to blue flags.

It's the only way Karthikeyan will get any race day practice though . Joking aside it was either an oversight in the rules or the FIA are assuming common sense would prevail (the irony I know!). In theory even with DRS the lapped car couldn't get close enough to overtake once you've moved from detection to activation. At best if they found themselves in the activation zone at the right time the boost could help them make up any time they've lost through the blue flags so it's not all silliness.

 

[Andyoak]

If a lapped driver can unlap himself care of DRS then well done... it could only mean the driver in the better car (and probably with better race craft) was caught napping and deserves all the ridicule such a move would bring.

In answer to the reasons why they can... DRS runs off the back of a pretty crude GPS that only measures the gap between two cars crossing a point; it doesn't link up to race position.

Why not lose the blue flags and keep DRS?
Or broken record time free up DRS completely?

 

[Fenderman]

If a lapped driver can unlap himself care of DRS then well done... it could only mean the driver in the better car (and probably with better race craft) was caught napping and deserves all the ridicule such a move would bring.

... or it means that the better car is on knackered tyres and the overtaker isn't

 

[mjo]

Bit of an unlikely or stupid question: What if every driver retires from the GP at less than 90% of scheduled race distance? Are there n points awarded or are points allocated from the first driver to retire?

 

[Brogan]

I would guess that no points would be awarded.

 

[Speshal]

Is it true that teams don't have big enough fuel tanks and thats why we always here about fuel saving?

Years ago they used to chill the fuel as cold fuel is more dense therefore you could fit the same amount in a smaller tank and you could also squirt more into the engine giving a supposed performance advantage.

I think that now the fuel isn't allowed to be less than 10 degrees colder than the ambient/track temperature.

 

[tooncheese]

I thought the race would be red flagged with only three drivers remaining. Even Monaco 1996 had four finishers, with seven classified.

 

[Fenderman]

Years ago they used to chill the fuel as cold fuel is more dense therefore you could fit the same amount in a smaller tank and you could also squirt more into the engine giving a supposed performance advantage.

I think that now the fuel isn't allowed to be less than 10 degrees colder than the ambient/track temperature.

This is one for TBY to help me out with my memory! There was a race at Interlagos I believe where Sauber and Williams fell foul of this rule but narrowly escaped sanction and the loss of points paying places. much to the chagrin of a team that would otherwise have been promoted in the points and it would have changed the outcome of the drivers championship. I'm going to google it to find out but I'm hoping TBY will get in before me as I could be wrong about the teams involved. I'll edit this post when I have confirmed the facts!

Edit: Indeed, the notorious year of 2007 when Kimi took the championship by 1 point. This is what happened:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Destination-of-Formula-1-title.3472870.jp

 

[Slyboogy]

It was indeed BMW Sauber and Williams, thier fuel near the end of the race changed temperatures due to the conditions and fell below the "legal" temperature, but it wasnt intentionally done and didn't happen in any other race in the season.

 

[Speshal]

Under FIA regulations, no fuel on board a car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature - the prevailing temperature on the track.

But in initial findings there was a clear discrepancy.Heidfeld's fuel was 13C lower than ambient at his first stop and 12C lower at his second.
Kubica's varied by 14C, 13C and 13C at his three stops, while Rosberg's was 13C and 12C out at his two stops.