Grand Prix 2023 Saudi Arabia GP 2023 Practice, Qualifying & Race discussion

[F1Brits_90]

Even without the safety car ALO had a big enough gap to RUS to keep his position. I don't understand the fuss about serving the penalty under SC. If anything, it might make it worse if the cars are bunched up already...

but if the cars are bunched up it makes any disadvantage null & void. just like you cant take a stop/go or drive thru penalty under a safety car. whats the point of a penalty if there no punishment

 

[Il_leone]

Verstappen’s dad in painfully awkward moment as radio spat re-ignites Red Bull tension More of this please

 

[Il_leone]

Priceless

 

[The Artist.....]

but if the cars are bunched up it makes any disadvantage null & void. just like you cant take a stop/go or drive thru penalty under a safety car. whats the point of a penalty if there no punishment

What the FIA have done in the last few years is massively reduce the penalties for breaking the rules. It used to be the case that any penalty was served as a stop-go, where work could not be done to the car, and couldn't be served under a safety car. (This meant that penalties were 20 - 30 seconds.

Had this been the case, Alonso would have been completely out of the fight.

Now, most penalties (whether for being marginally out of position on the grid, or forcing another driver off the track) are 5 seconds. Which is nothing. (The total cost of these penalties is often less than 5 seconds as well).

 

[F1Brits_90]

What the FIA have done in the last few years is massively reduce the penalties for breaking the rules. It used to be the case that any penalty was served as a stop-go, where work could not be done to the car, and couldn't be served under a safety car. (This meant that penalties were 20 - 30 seconds.

Had this been the case, Alonso would have been completely out of the fight.

Now, most penalties (whether for being marginally out of position on the grid, or forcing another driver off the track) are 5 seconds. Which is nothing. (The total cost of these penalties is often less than 5 seconds as well).

im glad that penalties arent as harsh because minor offences dont deserve drive thru penalties & it was making drivers more cautious, worse for the racing. & there needed to be a middle ground.

but reading through the rules it is allowed. which makes no sense but then ive been around long enough to know very little of the FIA rules make sense. it just crazy the FIA gave alonso a penalty they shouldnt have given then let take while race is neutralised the whole thing doesnt make sense

 

[F1Brits_90]

but on the Red bull thing that is 1 thing im looking forward to this season because that has got the potenial to ignite, because yesterday the behaviour of Jos & Max verstappen confirmed to me what andrew benson was saying that the feeling in the paddock is that they are still furious about the rumour perez deliberately crashed at monaco.

hopefully we can see them at battling together at some point because neither seem to want to give an inch right now. shown by the fastest lap, Perez was fuming inside that Max in his opinion defied the team & took the fastest lap when they were told to coast to the finish

 

[RasputinLives]

So we had Alonso still in contention for the lead but with a 5 second penalty hanging over his head - that for some reason he didn't complain about once even though it looked extremely harsh - and then all of a sudden I hear Aston Martin urgently asking Lance Stroll to stop on track (which we know will bring a safety car out). Have to admit - my brain when straight to Singapore! I'm sure it wasn't but my brain went there.

The penalty he got was harsh, if he is not in front of the line I don't see a problem. However since when can you serve penalties in a safety car period? No no. We need to stop that.

Anyways - the fact we're talking about the person in 3rd again shows we ain't got much to look forward too. Verstappen looked like he had a hyperdrive fitted at one point.

Aston Martin need to make the most of having a car advantage. They'll prob lose it by mid season. Need two point scoring drivers.

Both Merc drivers doing a good job with the car they have. Think both were excellent this weekend.

....and the Ferrari....whats gone on there then. Leclerc at least has the recovery excuse but Sainz? Needs a wake up call.

 

[Il_leone]

Leclerc is walking into the Ferrari driver disposal can but he was right with some of the cock ups this weekend

Sainz will stay quiet about the situation

Perez - Checo needs to be alert Verstappen ain't going to give the glory of leading . Shades of Vettel turning the engine up and lucky no multi 21

Verstappen -
Max-great drive no less but the SC deployment came to his favour
Jos - who gave this dickhead airtime

Russell- better than Hamilton all week

Hamilton- salvaged the situation but not at ease at all

McLarens
What is going on??? Out of sorts then up there for Q3 bet then the race nowhere

Lando - needs the Force to be with him

 

[RasputinLives]

Off topic but I still love the fact that people still use Multi21 as stick to beat Vettel with and claim Red Bull favouritism. You see 90% of fans screaming and rooting for a driver to 'ignore team orders' and 'give us a race' - then the one time someone actually does it the mob hate it because they don't like the guy and much prefer the guy in front. The fact its still be used on an internet forum a decade later blows my mind.

If you wanted a study of how popularity and media have constructed a narrative for events then thats probably it.

Sorry. Off topic.

 

[Il_leone]

I'd very much doubt multi 21 will work now because Verstappen has made his intentions clear since Spain last year about team orders.

Verstappen was prepared to break his gearbox for that point..the fact he should have won the race will leave him seething. Let's see if Red Bull can cope with this volatile situation because I just don't see anyone challenging at the moment

 

[F1Brits_90]

Off topic but I still love the fact that people still use Multi21 as stick to beat Vettel with and claim Red Bull favouritism. You see 90% of fans screaming and rooting for a driver to 'ignore team orders' and 'give us a race' - then the one time someone actually does it the mob hate it because they don't like the guy and much prefer the guy in front. The fact its still be used on an internet forum a decade later blows my mind.

If you wanted a study of how popularity and media have constructed a narrative for events then thats probably it.

Sorry. Off topic.

im probably guilty of that i would say. your right because if webber did it no one would bat an eyelid outside of Germany

but all popular individual sport is all about good guys & the panto villains. is the anger more to do with that it was almost sociopathic levels & verstappen is almost exactly same. vettel had zero remorse if he'd said 2 weeks later in Shanghai. i was wrong i apologised to the team. i let my competitiveness get the better of me as it very hard to settle for 2nd when a win is in touching distance

instead of The bottom line is that I was racing, I was faster, I passed him, I won

Webber did not deserve to win, says Vettel

Formula One world champion Sebastian Vettel met a barrage of questions about his failure to obey team orders on Thursday with an unrepentant smile and cold contempt for Red Bull team mate Mark Webber.

www.reuters.com

 

[F1Brits_90]

on verstappen press conference i didnt like what i heard broadcast on sky sports f1. because you cant expect 100 % reliability at someone in 115 sessions your going to have a failure. its part of the sport & to chuck your team under the bus & be so miserable after coming 2nd after 1 failure is abit ridiculous. because in the same way the team will expect that at some point he will probably put it in the wall & or crash into someone. or other mistakes etc. & i doubt Christian horner will so publicly slate him after 1 mistake

 

[The Artist.....]

McLarens
What is going on??? Out of sorts then up there for Q3 bet then the race nowhere

McLaren have a dog of a car, simply because they stopped developing this concept about 3 months ago, but not in enough time to be able to change their launch car.

It's expected that the Baku car will be almost a B-spec car, with a completely different aero-philosophy - which will hopefully catapult them closer to the top.

However, they are chasing a moving target, and Zeno's paradox will kick in...

 

[RasputinLives]

Do you think they have a lessons learned meetings at MTC? Mclaren are always turning up at the start of the season with a dog saying a B-spec is coming.

From evidence of this race Alpine are pretty much in the same position as they were last year. With two consistent point scoring drivers, Mclaren are going to find it hard to catch that up even with a B-spec car. With Aston probably jumping both of them, not being ready could be quite costly.

 

[Hamberg]

Off topic but I still love the fact that people still use Multi21 as stick to beat Vettel with and claim Red Bull favouritism. You see 90% of fans screaming and rooting for a driver to 'ignore team orders' and 'give us a race' - then the one time someone actually does it the mob hate it because they don't like the guy and much prefer the guy in front. The fact its still be used on an internet forum a decade later blows my mind.

If you wanted a study of how popularity and media have constructed a narrative for events then thats probably it.

Sorry. Off topic.

Those that adhere to team orders unless it’s all over for them won’t make a [future] world champion.

 

[Il_leone]

im probably guilty of that i would say. your right because if webber did it no one would bat an eyelid outside of Germany

but all popular individual sport is all about good guys & the panto villains. is the anger more to do with that it was almost sociopathic levels & verstappen is almost exactly same. vettel had zero remorse if he'd said 2 weeks later in Shanghai. i was wrong i apologised to the team. i let my competitiveness get the better of me as it very hard to settle for 2nd when a win is in touching distance

instead of The bottom line is that I was racing, I was faster, I passed him, I won

Webber did not deserve to win, says Vettel

Formula One world champion Sebastian Vettel met a barrage of questions about his failure to obey team orders on Thursday with an unrepentant smile and cold contempt for Red Bull team mate Mark Webber.

www.reuters.com

I will say this was Vettel's revenge for 2009 and 2012 Brazil where Webber did not help him

 

[Il_leone]

What the FIA have done in the last few years is massively reduce the penalties for breaking the rules. It used to be the case that any penalty was served as a stop-go, where work could not be done to the car, and couldn't be served under a safety car. (This meant that penalties were 20 - 30 seconds.

Had this been the case, Alonso would have been completely out of the fight.

Now, most penalties (whether for being marginally out of position on the grid, or forcing another driver off the track) are 5 seconds. Which is nothing. (The total cost of these penalties is often less than 5 seconds as well).

You know what Red Bull and Verstappen have almost like cornered the stewards into saying if you're being petty in dishing penalties you deprive the fans of entertainment unless off course it happens to involve Hamilton . The number of incidents Verstappen gets away with would have been punished more severely back in 2000s. The stewarding has decorated to a low point now where its equivalent to a bunch of players surrounding a referee at a football match mentality

 

[Il_leone]

Those that adhere to team orders unless it’s all over for them won’t make a [future] world champion.

That's true but you can't have it both ways like Verstappen and Vettel expect. Get out of my way mentality to their teammate and not expect repercussions at some point for their actions unless off course you're signed contractually to be No2.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Those that adhere to team orders unless it’s all over for them won’t make a [future] world champion.

sadly you are right, as the 1st names that came to me about being ruthless Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Verstappen, Vettel & they are Multiple World champions

 

[Il_leone]

Do you think they have a lessons learned meetings at MTC? Mclaren are always turning up at the start of the season with a dog saying a B-spec is coming.

From evidence of this race Alpine are pretty much in the same position as they were last year. With two consistent point scoring drivers, Mclaren are going to find it hard to catch that up even with a B-spec car. With Aston probably jumping both of them, not being ready could be quite costly.

I almost forgot Alpine..they looked good or that is what they think but they ended up further away from Mercedes and Aston Martin. Hate to say it they need to focus on themselves rather then vent their anger at both Aston Martin and Mclaren