Grand Prix 2011 Monaco Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Well how about that then, in a similar case in 2010 the doom and gloom merchants have vanished with a cracking grand prix in Spain. With the champagne still flowing we move on to Monaco a week later.

Mclaren will be a lot happier after running Red Bull all the way to the finish at a circuit where Red Bull normally run out of sight and could be favourites going into the Monaco race. Red Bull, however, will be the team to beat after 4 wins out of 5 races with Vettel looking unbeatable at the front but Spain showed that he wouldn't have it all his own way with Hamilton chasing him all the way to the end, even if Vettel extended his ever growing lead at the top of the championship

Ferrari seemed to have dropped back again after a superb start in Spain and eventually Alonso wound up 5th. But no doubt the Scuderia will be challenging the Mclarens and Red Bulls come the Grand Prix on Sunday. Felipe Massa's early season promise has vanished and he's back to his 2010 level and his seat will be back under scrutiny if he continues this lack of speed

Michael Schumacher will have reason to be optimistic after a strong race, beating his team mate and finishing a strong 6th as he best of the rest behind the Ferraris,Mclarens and Red Bulls. Mercedes no doubt have become the 4th fastest team over Renault who are now fighting over the lower points with Sauber and Force India.

However the big question on everyones lips will be DRS which didnt help overtaking in Spain (which is better) but more importantly where it will be placed on a circuit where straight track is at a premium so safety is a concern.

HRT continue to improve and are taking the fight to Virgin which for them is a massive achievement and its not long before they overtake them while Team lotus's optimism on Saturday didn't replicate on Sunday with a DNF for Kovalainen. But on a track where they would be weak, to get into Q2 is a massive achievement.

Hope seems to have returned to F1 after a surprisingly exciting race in Spain and it seems as if the feared Red Bull domination has been alleviated by the charging Mclarens and while Monaco is never a classic due to the nature of the track, it's certainly a spectacle

For Galahad's superb write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-monaco/

 

[Slyboogy]

"It's always difficult to overtake there, you must be side-by-side and he wasn't. I think he was too optimistic because of the condition of the race. He was on the super-soft option tyres." - Maldonado

Quite right, side-by-side in this track or at least 3/4

Massa is harsh though, I guess though that he is angry as he crashed out due to the damage caused by the collision

 

[Fenderman]

Massa has a point Maldonado doesn't. Lewis pass began on or shortly after crossing the start line. He should have been aware the Lewis was there and that Lewis would have the corner. If people want to crticise Lewis for that why the hell is there all this beying for more overtaking? It's always going to be a risky business in F1. Sometimes it will work sometimes it won't. Tough.

 

[Sarinaide]

I don't know, looked like Maldonado had the gap on Hamilton and the line, Alonso had a similarish dig at Vettel then yielded so yeah those curbs are a no go zone.

 

[Sarinaide]

On the Massa(poor quality) looks like Massa wanted to undercut on Webber more than a intentional move on Hamilton.

 

[Slyboogy]

The difference between Di Resta and Hamilton - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91868

Di Resta admits that 'ambitious driving' cost him, meanwhile Hamilton can't accept his mistake.

 

[Fenderman]

If I open the door to someone who I know is there I expect them to enter. If I didn't know they were there because I haven't been paying attention then, actually, that's my problem.

 

[johnnoble1990]

I didn't realise we were still discussing this on here as well. Regardless of whether Massa's move was intentional or not, surely that would only be the difference between it being a racing incident and Massa penalty. I don't think classing an overtake as "aggressive" should be a reason to give a penalty. It should be based on who caused it and that was 100% Massa in my opinion. He had Lewis on the pavement and was still touching him. Disgraceful day for F1 in my eyes, but we shall move on.

 

[johnnoble1990]

The difference between Di Resta and Hamilton - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91868

Di Resta admits that 'ambitious driving' cost him, meanwhile Hamilton can't accept his mistake.

I can't either. It is only over-ambitous if you driver into someone. Lewis not only stayed on his inside line, but went onto the pavement trying to stay out of Massa's way and he was still touching Lewis.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

In the Maldonado incident it looks to me that Hamilton, if not completely alongside, had enough of an overlap that Maldonado would have been wise to give him some room. But it was very optimistic by Lewis.
Two other things strike me about this one: would it have been seen by the stewards as more of a 50/50 racing incident if the Massa one hadn't already happened earlier? And secondly, that tyre wall at Ste. Devote does seem to protrude quite a way into the track, making the exit narrower and almost inviting trouble. That's the same barrier that Liuzzi clipped yesterday, smashing the rear of his car to bits.

On the Massa one, the Ferrari driver does go very wide to the right before the hairpin, almost inviting a move up the inside. Maybe the normal racing line in clear air, but perhaps not advisable when you know you have someone breathing down your neck. Then he cuts quite sharply into the corner and actually clips Webber's rear, damaging his own front wing in the process, a split second before the contact with Hamilton. Again, an optimistic move perhaps by the Mclaren driver, but would Massa really not have expected him to be going for it?
Seeing as Massa damaged his wing by contact with Webber, it's a bit harsh of him to then claim that his accident in the tunnel was as a result of damage caused by Hamilton. It looked more like he just got a poor run out of Portier and ended up on the marbles in the tunnel; not where you want to be.

All in all though, a day to forget for Hamilton. It did occur to me that prior to his 'no tyres ready' stop he had got ahead of Webber, who eventually finished 4th. So if it hadn't been for that bungle and his drive-through penalty, things could have been so much better. Then his comments afterwards will unfortunately have provided much ammunition for those who would love to see his downfall.
Hindsight eh? Anyone who could work out a way to bottle it would be a billionaire I reckon.

Huge congrats to Vettel though; didn't put a foot wrong all day and even managed to turn his own team's calamity in the pits into a winning strategy. Awesome.

 

[Fenderman]

I didn't realise we were still discussing this on here as well. Regardless of whether Massa's move was intentional or not, surely that would only be the difference between it being a racing incident and Massa penalty. I don't think classing an overtake as "aggressive" should be a reason to give a penalty. It should be based on who caused it and that was 100% Massa in my opinion. He had Lewis on the pavement and was still touching him. Disgraceful day for F1 in my eyes, but we shall move on.

I don't agree exactly, but I appreciate your tenacity, johnnoble. Personally I see those events as racing incidents, We can't cry out for overtaking and then sanitise the sport so that no-one has the incentive or the guts to try.

 

[Slyboogy]

On the Massa one, the Ferrari driver does go very wide to the right before the hairpin, almost inviting a move up the inside. Maybe the normal racing line in clear air, but perhaps not advisable when you know you have someone breathing down your neck. Then he cuts quite sharply into the corner and actually clips Webber's rear, damaging his own front wing in the process, a split second before the contact with Hamilton. Again, an optimistic move perhaps by the Mclaren driver, but would Massa really not have expected him to be going for it?
Seeing as Massa damaged his wing by contact with Webber, it's a bit harsh of him to then claim that his accident in the tunnel was as a result of damage caused by Hamilton. It looked more like he just got a poor run out of Portier and ended up on the marbles in the tunnel; not where you want to be.

Actually watch the video Sarinaide put up in this thread a few posts above, Hamilton bumps into Massa and kind of steers him into Webber then he clips his front wing against the Red Bull, then the two make contact again. So I think Massa does have a point that the damage was caused by Hamilton.

See at 0.04s in that video, Hamilton's right front tyre connects with Massa's sidepod, causing a change in direction

 

[johnnoble1990]

My thoughts on it can be summed up into one statement, "if you are on the outside when entering a corner with another car you take the outside line, if you are on the inside you take inside line." Nobody should be switching lines in a braking zone, your defensive move should have been made already by either switching to the inside or trying to undercut a driver from the outside. Mark Brundle's whole "he should've just turned in" is a ridiculous racing tactic. If you look at the 3 drivers who make it hardest to overtake in F1, Alonso, Hamilton and Schumacher, all of them stick to this philosophy.

 

[Sarinaide]

It was a bit of a fender bender

 

[johnnoble1990]

I've made that my signature because i am just repeating myself now and although others may not agree, i think that is the difference between a beautiful overtake and a collision.

 

[Johnny Carwash]

Just like to say a big to Kamui Kobayashi for bringing the car home in 5th. Must of been a boost for the team after what happened to Sergio Perez in qualifing.

 

[FB]

No mention by anyone of the Mercedes boys - what a dreadful weekend for the Silver Arrows. Schumie on made 32 laps and Nico was out of the top 10. Bad weekend all round.

 

[johnnoble1990]

Its been the Mercedes trend so far this season. They aren't any better than last year.

 

[teabagyokel]

I think Mercedes did make a right royal mess of their strategy under pressure.

 

[ecclestoned]

Your more than welcome to start a thread where we can discuss the rights and wrongs of the rule book John. I'm sure many would have an opinion on the cars being allowed to changes tyres before the restart for example.

or rebuilding the car altogether for that matter

 

[FB]

Seemed to use their tyres up quicker than the other teams too. Big up for Williams and their first points though - well done the boys from Didcot. Could have been more had Maldonado finished.