Grand Prix 2011 German Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's turning out to be a strange old season

Mixed conditions and poor pit stops paved the way to an enthralling race, while it had one of the lowest overtaking figures of the year, it certainly showed that overtaking isn't the be all and end all of grand prix racing, however the two Mclaren drivers showed that overtaking can be exciting.

Of the runners and riders, Ferrari have made the biggest gain and maybe, just maybe, Red Bull have lost their monopoly over the top step of the podium and we might finally have a championship, however I'm sure I have said this after China and Canada.......

The curious case of Mclaren continued apace this weekend as they had no pace, found pace and then lost it again. In the changeable conditions at the start of the race, Hamilton and Button charged through the field until the dry conditions when the natural order reasertied themselves, however, it is hard to see how they really showed in fully dry conditions as Button lost a wheel nut early on and Hamilton had to fuel save for the latter part of the race.

Going into the German Grand Prix, Red Bull will understandably be favourites as Sebastian Vettel looks to extend his lead at the top of the championship as he continues in his quest for back to back champions (and the youngest to do so before I'm mistaken) but he'll have to fight off a resurgant Mark Webber who is finally challenging his team mate again after a slow start to the season after he struggled to acclimatise to the Pirelli tyres, he was also stung by the team orders at the end of the last Grand Prix, so you can't bet against him for at least a podium position next weekend.

Renault seem to have disappeared after a strong start to the season, Vitaly Petrov seems to have fallen back into 2010 mode after a strong start to the season. Nick Heidfeld has fared better recently and still features in the lower ends of the points, however a podium seems a long way away, a theory solidified as their side exhausts have had to be abandonded due to the propsed rules, however with the debate going on at the moment, this may not be the case after all.

Mercedes seem to have found pace recently, Rosberg is constintely in the midle of the points while Schumacher seems more like himself again, in more ways than one.......... But at his home grand prix, he will be keen to show that he still has it, along with a large number of German drivers, the most represented country on the grid, so many people will be keen to show that they are the best German on the grid.

Team lotus made it into Q2 again which is a major achievment for them and shows that they are getting closer to the midfield and their major goal of getting points before the end of the year so they can beat Virgin and Hispania.

This year we return to the Nurburgring as part of the deal is that the circuit alternates with Hockenheim, last time we were there was in 2009 where Mark Webber won his first grand prix in the Red Bull. In recent memory Nurburgring will be best remembered for the crazy race in 2007 where a heavy rain shower caused havoc at the start of the race and famously allowed Markus Winkelhock to lead the race in his Spyker, joining the elite of people who led a race in their first (and only race)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/nurburgring/
 
I don't think Massa will move over this time. I'll bet CAN $ 10,000 Massa won't hand a win to Alonso at Hockenheim if he's legitimately able to win.

I have two main reasons why and i'm willing to bet heavilly on it.
  1. Massa is not legitimately able to win
  2. The race is at the Nurburgring
So I throw your CA$10000 (£6459.45, €7332.99) back at you and refuse to take your bet!
 
I cannot, in a month of Sundays see Massa do a Webber

Massa is a Ferrari man through and through, when he was in hospital after his crash, I reckon his bed lining was Ferrari colours
 
There's life after Ferrari (Lauda, Mansell, Prost, Schumacher and Raikkonen will all tell you that...as will Barrichello) and Massa's young still. Ferrari don't owe Massa a thing...and Massa needs to show his country and other team managers that he can still race and win Grand Prix races. Most importantly, Massa needs to show himself that he can beat Alonso on his day.
 
Thing is Ray....

Team orders are now legal...

I think it's more likely he would move this year than last year.

As last year it was illegal, he wouldn't have got slated by anyone if he carried on. But now as they are legal, it looks wrong, first of all he's disobeying the team, second of all it wont look good on his CV.

I for one hope he wins this weekend.
 
Thing is Ray....Team orders are now legal...I think it's more likely he would move this year than last year. As last year it was illegal, he wouldn't have got slated by anyone if he carried on. But now as they are legal, it looks wrong, first of all he's disobeying the team, second of all it wont look good on his CV.

I for one hope he wins this weekend.

I'll have to take a different view...Team Orders being illegal or legal is actually irrellevent...I think he's less likely to move over and give up a win now. Why? Because he has to start being a man and think about how other team managers would view him and about a future if Ferrari dump him (like they have done to so many drivers in the past). As per "getting slated"...he got CRUCIFIED by his home country last year. Imagine what would happen this year if he moved over and handed a win over to someone else...what would Brazil think of him, then? They'd laugh and ridicule him where ever he went instead of being somewhat proud of him like Aussies are Proud of Webber.

Webber's stock went up after Silverstone...even within his own team! Mateschitz LOVES Webber...because Webber's a FIGHTER!

Massa would be a wimp if he moved over again and handed a win over.

Last year the points gap was actually reasonable and, yet, Alonso didn't even win the WDC...This year Massa can say "I don't think it's a reasonable gap like last year...and i'm racing to win...If you don't like it, F off!".

If he said that, Brazil and others would love him and respect him for it...and Team Managers might even say..."Hmmm...he can at least beat Alonso from time to time on his day...so maybe we'll hire him and see what happens!"

It's high time Massa acted like a Man like Webber instead of a Lap Dog or Pussy Cat...and, as I said, Lauda, Mansell, Prost, Schumacher, Barrichello and Raikkoenen have all found out that there's life after Ferrari.

I'll take your bet up next year ;)

Touche'
 
Once a Massy, always a Massy

I dunno, CFS. :) I mean there's another saying: Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me...

So, I think Massa has one final shot of reversing what happened to him last year at Hockenheim. His shot will come ... but only if he's leading a Grand Prix from Alonso...and this year is ideal because, as I said, he can argue that "catching Vettel's 100 point lead is way less realistic this year than catching Webber's 45 point lead last year...and Ferando didn't even win it, inspite of the gap being much smaller. So...i'm going to be giving it 100 percent to help Ferrari win the Team championship."
 
I dunno, CFS. :) I mean there's another saying: Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me...

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Its just that Massa's car seemed to be on remote control in Aus 2011, when he dropped behind Alonso to stuff Button who had cut a corner to pass him. Also last race when he was left dangling in the wind as Alonso contemplated exactly which lap to come in, there was no heroic reaction directed at his fans or potential employers

It seems like since Germany 2010 he has been through the worst, withstood the reaction of his countrymen, almost confirmed as Alonsos running mate henceforth

Cant see Massa acquiring the interest in finding a new seat for 2012
 
But he wasn't in a position to win the two races you cited (Australia, Britian). The world changes when you have a sniff of victory. I'm sure he'd feel great if he won a race again...and it would give him a huge boost.

PLUS, there's a chance he completely underestimated the reaction of his compatriots. Brazil gave birth to Senna, Fittipaldi...they have a proud tradition in F1...and I don't think Massa will underestimate their reaction again.

The gap VET to ALO is too big for him to be moving over at this stage.

Honestly, no driver in their right mind would be handing over wins to a guy who us SO FAR behind an Ace. Vettel is not Webber. Vettel is an Ace...and he ain't gonna cough up a 100 point lead the way Webber coughed up his 45 point lead. The difference is like Night and Day!
 
Normal service has been resumed it would seem, having seen the FP3 results.

Looks like it's Red Bull, Ferrari Alonso, McLaren.

Although race pace will once again be the deciding factor and for some reason I'm favouring Alonso again.
 
Crofty and AD were saying the RB drivers need to pull out at least a 1/10th in sections 1 and 2 to be able to keep Alonso at bay in section 3. I think qualifying will be all important and then the run down to the first corner. If either Webber or Vettel make it into the first corner in the lead it could be all over. Although there's always the Pirelli factor...
 
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