Grand Prix 2011 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's a long summer and the key discussions aren't about the F1.

As we are in the middle of the summer break, the SKY/BBC deal continues to take precedence over any on track action we saw at Hungary, which is a shame as we saw a cracker of a race where Jenson Button eventually won his second race of the season ahead of Sebastian Vettel who extended his lead at the top of the championship yet again and surely it takes a miracle for anyone to overtake him now with less than half the races to go.

However with Belgium coming closer on the calender, it seems as if Red Bull has lost the dominance it held over the first half of the season with McLaren appearing to have the best all round package with 4 wins now this year with 2 for Button and 2 for Hamilton. Ferrari aren't far behind and are perhaps the best team in warm conditions but that remains to be seen after a series of damp and cold races. However it would still be a foolish person to bet against Red Bull going into the Belgian Grand Prix where the fast sweeping corners and technical hairpins will no doubt play to their advantage.

Spa Francorchamps is regarded (quite rightly) as the best driver circuit on the calendar with the famous circuit having many variations from its original form to the current version which was last changed in 2006 to incorporate the new pit area and final chicane, the final chicane wasn't popular as both fans and drivers miss the challenging bus stop chicane and the 'new' pit lane which can cause problems.

The grand prix has been famous for it's unpredictable weather with violent storms and half the track being dry and the other wet at the same time and completely random showers, the big example was 2008 where a late shower caught out the entire field and cost Kimi Raikkonen (and eventually Hamilton) the win. In 1998 torrential rain caused one of the worst starts in F1 history where half the field was wiped out on turn 1, eventually (after a restart) Damon Hill won for Jordan in a 1-2 with Ralf Schumacher second, Michael Schumacher famously nearly started a fight with David Coulthard after crashing into him trying to lap him.

Michael Schumacher has an impressive record at this track, winning his first race at the track in 1992 and taking several wins at the track with his last coming in 2002 where he took his seventh world championship. However at the moment it is unlikely that he will add to his list of wins with the Mercedes well off the pace of the leading trio of Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull.

Mercedes might find themselves behind Force India at the race as the track suits them down to a tee, in 2009 Fisichella took a surprise pole position and then took second place just finishing behind Raikkonen in the Ferrari (who always seemed to win at Spa when he was driving there)
Sutil and Di Resta have shown impressive pace recently, with both achieving season bests at the last few races and are closing the gap to the flagging Renault team who have really lost performance since the start of the season with Heidfeld and Petrov dissapointing.

On a personal level I am really looking forward to this race as I have weekend tickets and will be at Pouhon all weekend to bring you the best coverage from the track, (better than these Sky lot anyway)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-spa-francorchamps/
 
Heaven forbid that the driving should get in the way of the timetable.

Absolutely!:tea:

Heaven forbid if a poor marshal or a poor spectator got killed because of recklessness on the part of the organizers or a cowboy driver trying to save his ride.

In all seriousness, I sat and stood - in the rain - through the longest ever Grand Prix event in F1 history (Canada, 2011) so I don't really have an issue with 'scheduling' per se'.

Having said that, I don't see the point of having DRS through Eau Rouge in sessions when they're not going to be used there in the race anyway.

Cheers.
 
Needless to say, I would hate to see any spectator or marshal hurt. Still, if the drivers want to hurt themselves that's up to them, and I must confess to some admiration for Jacques' annual battle of wills with Eau Rouge, a battle that the corner often won. Whatever else you say about the man, he had balls.
 
In all seriousness, I sat and stood throught the longest ever Grand Prix event in F1 history (Canada, 2011) so I don't really have an issue with 'scheduling' per se'.

I'm just glad theres sod all on TV on a Sunday night and I have an understanding, and sport-watching family. Otherwise, I may have missed that one.

If the important audience is the TV audience (as Bernie believes) then it would help to keep broadcasters informed, no?

Whether this is relevant is a different question, but our friends in't'north will want to be watching the Challenge Cup final afterwards, so if Bernie doesn't want to do the impossible (and unite Yorkshire and Lancashire) then maybe its best if the DRS is banned!
 
I seem to remember JV being one of the first to explore the limits of turn 8 at Istanbul Park in the Sauber and going off in all sorts of different directions. He certainly wasn't shy in giving things a go.

I'd like to see the drivers allowed to explore the limits of their cars through every corner and then it's up to them to find out how good their designers and engineers are. That said, Derek Daly used to be almost like a crash test dummy in 1980 and certainly explored the "limits of the car" in a number of different ways.
 
I'd like to see the drivers allowed to explore the limits of their cars through every corner and then it's up to them to find out how good their designers and engineers are.

It's a matter of how often and how well they crash the car. There's a fine line between a driver exploring the limits of his car and bankrupting the team. :snigger:

Non?

Remember when Ron Dennis hired Marlboro pay driver Andrea de Cesaris? He found that the all the Marlboro money on the planet couldn't pay for all those written off chassis! :D
 
Thats a lovely idea, but only two teams can have Vettel and Hamilton. Therefore, what do the rest of the teams do. Say you haven't got the money and/or prestige to attract an "Ace". Then you're in trouble, aren't you, by your reckoning!
 
How? By hiring an Ace who can push the limits regularly but without crashing it.

Hamilton and Vettel for me!

I may regret this but you're talking complete rot Ray. Every driver, every time they get into an F1 car has to explore both the limits of the car and what they are personally capable of. Some drivers overstep their limits, some overstep the limits of the car but unless they push themselves or the machinery we end up with a grid full of Yuje Ide's. To suggets that an "ace" can explore the limits of the car with without going past them occasionally is palpable nonsense.

I will not get drawn on this any further.
 
Hmm. Drivers also have different limits. I think what we are talking about is the ultimate limit which would be a combination of both the limits of the machinery and the limits of the driver. There are two variables in the equation. If we were to plot the limits of a car against drivers we would have to give them all a lap in each car and plot the drivers against the cars in a 2x2 matrix.

This leans towards Ray's thinking.
 
I may regret this but you're talking complete rot Ray. Every driver, every time they get into an F1 car has to explore both the limits of the car and what they are personally capable of. Some drivers overstep their limits, some overstep the limits of the car but unless they push themselves or the machinery we end up with a grid full of Yuje Ide's. To suggets that an "ace" can explore the limits of the car with without going past them occasionally is palpable nonsense.

I will not get drawn on this any further.

Perhaps I should rephrase by saying 'explore the limits regularly without crashing it too often'.

That's what separates an Ace from the merely good, isn't it?

An ace takes the car to the limit more often than others without over-stepping it's limits regularly. Yes, they'll crash the car once in a while...but they won't crash it often and will - more than others - extract it's maximum.

Hamilton and Vettel for me.
 
Thats a lovely idea, but only two teams can have Vettel and Hamilton. Therefore, what do the rest of the teams do. Say you haven't got the money and/or prestige to attract an "Ace". Then you're in trouble, aren't you, by your reckoning!

Hamilton and Vettel are my Aces. Doesn't mean there aren't other Aces on the Grid. Some consider Alonso an Ace, other think Rosberg one.

How do we know the Lotus isn't capable of Q2? How do we know the Mercedes isn't capable of Podiums?

Stick Vettel or Hamilton in one and find out. We'll never know because there are only Two!

So yes - for me - all other teams are in trouble. That includes Ferrari and Mercedes. Without Hamilton and Vettel in their cars, they're in trouble.
 
The best line up on the grid is at McLaren. Button is great for strategy and technical feedback and gets on great with Lewis,he may not have raw pace or speed but is not more really than 3 tenths off Lewis. Lewis is super fast and can drive a car even if it's got levels of oversteer that other drivers would call "extreme".

I wouldn't put Hamilton and Vettel as they probably wouldn't get on, and they would be too much for a team or me to handle as they are both super fast.
 
Only under 2 days to go :) til Practice in SPA.

Really hopes MCLS has a fab time going to SPA and comes back with a glowing recommendation for some of us to go next year!

I really think this race will be a close one between all three top teams. Mclaren will favour sector 1, Red Bull will favour sector 2 and Macca sector three, with Ferrari been very close to both in all three sectors.

Can't wait for this one! :).
 
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