Grand Prix 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Brogan said:
As GM's thread shows, there were actually 19 overtakes, not including those on the first lap:

Overtaking analysis - 2010
I just posted a link to that on 606. Hope that's ok. I've been reading round the forum and came across some discussion in the Pit Lane section about growing the userbase.

Hell

James Allen is reporting on the disappointment of Alonso, Schumacher and the fans over the racing today. I suppose it's something of a back-handed compliment that "the show" is being criticised after just one race (when people really need to give the new regs a chance at a variety of circuits), but I wonder if "F1" (FOM, FOTA, the FIA and us) need to take a step back and ask what they want F1 to be. FOTA had a survey a few weeks back but it was very biased towards change for change's sake IMO. The question over race length didn't have an option for keeping it the same.

James Allen's blog thing
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Making 1 pit stop mandatory is bad enough in my book but two would be totally stupid. There is precious little tyre strategy at the moment anyway but that would make things worse. With a single tyre supplier meaning all cars use the same compounds if there were two stops you would never see anyone wear out their rubber and it would totally remove that element from GP racing.

Could you imagine if other sports had so many mandated rules in their races? Cycle racing would be hilarious if in the sprint race the rider had to pull in and change his tyres !!!

I thought todays race was ok. I didn't think tyres played anywhere near as large a part in the outcome as people were predicting.

For me Highlights of the race:

Lewis' hard fought third place
Both Loti finishing
Strong performances from some of the mid-field teams

Poor parts of the race:
Vettels problems denying us a battle for the lead
Mercedes not really doing very much at all
The extended track.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

genji said:
I just posted a link to that on 606. Hope that's ok.
Fine with me, genji, thanks.
 

Boyle

Race Winner
Contributor
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

cider_and_toast said:
Making 1 pit stop mandatory is bad enough in my book but two would be totally stupid. There is precious little tyre strategy at the moment anyway but that would make things worse. With a single tyre supplier meaning all cars use the same compounds if there were two stops you would never see anyone wear out their rubber and it would totally remove that element from GP racing.
Indeed. I mean why the hell ban refuelling if teams still had to make two stops?! Even one for that matter. Leave it up to the strategists to decide how many stops their own team should make rather than making them mandatory.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The head to head data has been updated.
If anyone spots any errors, please let me know.

Lewis, Rubens and Robert are the only 3 drivers who beat their teammate in qualifying, race finish and fastest lap.

F1 2010 Head To Head
 
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Snowy said :

The commentary and lack of vision on the part of the TV producer on he other hand, were a problem.
Does anyone know what the estimated fan base is for F1 in the UK and how this has varied over the years.

It would be interesting to see if this declined once Murray Walker retired, even the most boring race, IMO his sheer enthuisism used to enliven.

Nice to see Alonso back to his winning ways, just a shame it wasn't a fight at the end.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The most sensible comments on the race today came from Jacques Villeneuve.

When asked if the race was entertaining:
I think it (the race) was entertaining, there wasn't much overtaking but you could see cars getting closer to one another, sliding and losing time as their tyres overheated. It was fun to watch.
When Ted suggested there was the prospect for races being more boring without refuelling he replied bluntly:
There wasn't overtaking with refuelling, it doesn't change a thing. As long as you are dependent heavily on the aerodynamics instead of mechanical grip you won't have good racing... ...the racing was as good if not better than last year.
You'd have thought Jacques Villeneuve would be the voice of reason at the Beeb. Give him a full time job I say! :cheer:
 

rufus_mcdufus

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Interesting from GM's overtaking analysis that we can in fact expect less overtaking at Albert Park! Nicer track though.
 

Boyle

Race Winner
Contributor
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I guess Luscious Liz lost her spark...

:tumbleweed:
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Boooooooooooooooooooooooring
 

rufus_mcdufus

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I've spent a while reading comments about how boring people found the Bahrain race. It's very tempting to agree, particularly as some of the drivers were on very conservative strategies (so they claim anyway), but I personally enjoyed that race more than Bahrain last year, and more than most of the races last year for that matter. I was really sceptical about the refuelling ban - I just cannot see how it could *directly* influence overtaking or the quality of racing (there are some indirect means, but also potentially more indirect means in which it could negatively influence overtaking too), but in terms of strategy and surprise I thought it worked quite well. There were more overtaking moves - but I'd argue that these were between less-evenly matched cars than before so in the main were simple passes rather than aggressive overtakes, but let's face it - Sakhir sucks and always will.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

let's face it - Sakhir sucks and always will.
As do many of the current circuits, but I believe they have a very nice pit lane and hospitality suites! Is the problem the circuits or the cars though (cue discussion about mechnical versus aerodynamic grip)?

Wasn't part of the problem at Sakhir that the ambient temperture was so high that when the cars got close to one another there was risk of overheating tyres and engines? The commentators seemed to suggest this and Alonso moving about behind Vettel on the straights appears to back this up. Bernie's pursuit of the mighty Dollar has taken F1 to places that appear simply not to be suitably for motor racing - desert states and races in countries during monsoon season. Should Bahrain be a night race?
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The TV producer and the BBC commentary team were given an excellent opportunity to stretch their legs and minds, and incorporate action and detail from further down the grid. They singularly failed to do this, they were as ill prepared and their conservative stategies reflected those of the F1 teams. Given time and a little intellegent, considered thought both the teams and the coverage could improve.

The knee jerk reaction of mandating 2 pitstops is what I fear most. They need to get rid of the mandatory 1 pitstop, get rid of the mandatory use of two tyres and the get rid of the step between the two compounds. That would give the teams an opportunity to use different strategies to win the race. The cars have enough character traits left to allow them to exploit strengths and weaknesses... But for how long?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

But as we saw last year, it's not the circuits.
GP2 and other series can manage to overtake perfectly well on exactly the same circuits that F1 uses.

It's the cars and has been for a long time.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Sense from JV earlier in this thread, but also from Le Professeur

Former world champion Alain Prost, a race steward in Bahrain, believes concerns about the refuelling ban will ease as the season progresses.
"They have got used to a sprint - in free practice, qualifying, race. And having 60kg of fuel or 10kg makes no difference," he told BBC Sport. "When you start with 160kg you have to think differently, and they are not used to that.
"After a few races, I am sure the good drivers, the top drivers, will like it."
The drivers need to take their share for yesterday, and remember what racing is about. So do the teams. The drivers are starting to look like the prima donnas those outside of F1 deem them to be (Witness the physio protest. Grow up, boys!), and whilst on this board we are coming up with several ideas to improve the racing, don't think that the F1 teams don't know what it takes to make a good race.

It is not in their interests to design a car that can be overtaken, after all. Far better to design a car that you hope is quickest, and so will lead from the front. And if it's not the quickest, or is but gets caught behind another, well you can always blame the rules that stop you from overtaking.

When I get some time today, I'm going to do some analaysis to see whether Felipe, Lewis or even Nico could have won the race if they were allowed the option of not stopping. Just a thought.
 

rufus_mcdufus

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I'd also be interested to know whether a two-stop stategy may have worked well after all. Clearly all the calculations the teams had proved otherwise, but was it so clear-cut?
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The tyre wear was far less than expected in certain stages of the race and circumstances (in traffic) whilst simultaneously being far more than expected in other stages and cicumstances. There were plenty of opportunities and senarios the teams could have exploited but none of them chose to roll the dice and step out of there "zones of expectation". They uniformly stood there like rabbits caught in headlights! :o

Lewis may have been able to get to the end of the race on another set of the option tyres and may have been able to close that gap. But he wasn't given that option by the rules.
 
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