Grand Prix 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying and Race Discussion

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Thanks genji. The psychology of Q3 in this new format interests me.

Let's imagine that this is the situation:
Massa is very anxious to put a marker down on Alonso right from the start. He knows Fernando has been quicker in practice, and can't afford to concede position within the team. For him there is no other option to go flat out in qualifying and hope that it will be enough to beat, or at least roughly equal, his team mate.

Alonso on the other hand is very conscious of the new tyre regs. His strength is in setting those strong consistent times lap after lap in the races. He knows there are no points awarded on Saturday, so he drives to the splits, keeps himself in the mix, without taking too much from the tyres. For him the battle doesn't start until tomorrow.

Is that right? I have no idea. It's an intriguing thought (and clearly not just for the Ferrari drivers either).
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

snowy said:
Ferrari are changing Felipe Massa's engine, apparently it is behaving oddly. :unsure:

http://www.f1technical.net/news/14397?sid=cc032e9958fe8d6e1dca73b0b491daf2
How come they can change it without penalty? Does the penalty only apply when using a 9th engine in the season now? In which case, presumably that's Mass one engine down for the whole season, since I don't think they can fix it.

Rumours of Alonso being seen with a bag of Tate & Lyle are apparently unfounded LOL
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

So the cunning thing to do would be to use the engines with the abnormalities for all future practice and qualifying sessions, changing to a far fresher engine for each subsequent race... :whistle:
 

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

If I read that right ("We will change the engine on Alonso's car for the same precautionary measure which determined the previous decision") then they're changing Alonso's engine because Massa's showed abnormalities.

If Alonso's didn't show abnormalities (given we don't know what those abnormalities were and may have been related to this event - heat or the bumpy circuit or something), then why change it? Their replacement engines might also share the same abnormalities if there's a possibility that Alonso's apparently fine first engine does.

I wonder what Sauber and STR will make of it?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Using both jokers before the first race leaves them no safety net for the rest of the season.

Interesting when the other teams using Ferrari engines haven't complained of any issues.
 

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I don't think there are jokers any more, are there? They just have to manage eight engines and if they use a ninth they get penalised.
 

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

In the post-race BBC forum show Martin Whitmarsh has suggested that after today they'll be looking at working with Bridgestone to make the tyres more marginal and :o mandating two pit stops - this year (he hopes banning the stepped diffuser will make things more exciting from 2011).

I was so glad when the threatened minimum two pit stops didn't go through a few weeks ago. I think mandating one stop is bad, as is forcing the drivers to start on their qualifying tyres.

I don't like the way FOTA think sometimes.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The race wasn't actually as boring as some were making it out to be, historically the Bahrain GP has never been thrilling. Adding a big wiggly section of slow turns was never going to improve the racing. The commentary and lack of vision on the part of the TV producer on he other hand, were a problem. They should have attempted to convey some of the action further down the field and in particular the threat posed to Felipe Massa once Lewis had got past Nico Rosberg. Lewis's pace was significantly quicker than one would have expected given that he qualified 1 second off it!

Lap	Rosberg		Hamilton	Massa		Alonso		Vettel
15 02:03.726 02:06.059 02:03.161 02:02.875 02:02.460
16 02:05.842 02:20.765 02:02.668 02:05.043 02:02.394
17 02:21.500 02:00.447 02:04.902 02:19.372 02:05.068
18 02:01.683 02:02.131 02:19.728 02:01.640 02:20.578
19 02:02.338 02:00.940 02:00.117 02:01.619 02:01.738
20 02:01.758 02:01.211 02:00.701 02:01.361 02:01.506
21 02:01.351 02:00.825 02:00.818 02:01.042 02:01.192
22 02:01.462 02:00.876 02:00.878 02:00.491 02:00.999
23 02:01.201 02:00.842 02:00.723 02:01.235 02:01.152
24 02:01.520 02:00.896 02:01.027 02:00.732 02:00.569
25 02:01.370 02:00.584 02:00.756 02:00.789 02:00.832
26 02:02.045 02:00.512 02:00.535 02:00.637 02:00.724
27 02:01.300 02:00.194 02:00.420 02:00.579 02:01.124
28 02:01.247 02:00.377 02:00.760 02:00.506 02:00.320
29 02:01.273 02:00.036 02:00.239 01:59.583 02:00.500
30 02:01.341 02:00.355 02:00.371 02:00.019 02:00.421
31 02:01.142 02:00.325 02:00.457 02:00.451 02:00.283
32 02:00.625 02:00.368 02:00.104 02:01.206 02:00.218
33 02:00.903 01:59.706 02:00.262 02:00.411 02:01.574
34 02:01.104 02:00.150 02:02.013 02:02.456 02:04.102
35 02:00.889 02:00.062 02:02.378 01:59.477 02:05.060
 

Boyle

Race Winner
Contributor
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I was certainly expecting more to happen towards the end of the race. It didn't help that Alonso was given a free-pass to victory as it would have been excellent to see him and Vettel battle it out, with Massa lurking behind. However, I expected more from Schumacher, Button and Webber, they were close since the pit stops but didn't really have a go at overtaking. I suppose they can be forgiven, though, as they didn't really have much inclination how hard they could push without shredding the tyres. Jenson was himself surprised at how well they held out. Didn't see Hamilton holding back though!

Having learned how hard they can push their tyres, I expect better racing at Melbourne.
 

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

No, I didn't find it boring and I'm worried that FOTA will use lack of nailbiting wheel-to-wheel combat at the front to push through extreme artificiality. I thought the race felt authentic (despite the leaders starting on worn tyres and being obliged to stop to change compounds) and enjoyed a lot of it.

The TV feed is par for the course, I think. It often cuts away from action that you can see developing in live timing, and pays almost no attention to mid- or back of the field action.

Yes - the infield section was a big mistake. A two-minute lap was a big mistake. I didn't expect them not to get closer than six seconds to qualifying time, though, and I expected a bit more variation in tyre usage. It appears they're all consummately capable of managing tyre wear and the cars are all built to facilitate that. I was really surprised the Red Bull didn't trash its tyres at all with what I've heard (and probably mistakenly bought) about its exhaust system.

I'm not too worried about McLaren's pace (and Hamilton achieved a great result given what he had, IMO) given the length of their car and the +1 minute (!) sector 2 - I remember Ferrari always used to favour longer wheelbase cars and it used to hurt them.

Malaysia should be good, and once they're back in Europe I expect the new regs to start coming to fruition. We don't need mandatory pit-stops or contrived handicaps.
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

genji said:
In the post-race BBC forum show Martin Whitmarsh has suggested that after today they'll be looking at working with Bridgestone to make the tyres more marginal and :o mandating two pit stops - this year (he hopes banning the stepped diffuser will make things more exciting from 2011).

I was so glad when the threatened minimum two pit stops didn't go through a few weeks ago. I think mandating one stop is bad, as is forcing the drivers to start on their qualifying tyres.

I don't like the way FOTA think sometimes.
Please no. No other top form of motorsport has such rules as "you must race on these tyres, you must also use these tyres, you must also stop this many times", etc.

Just let the bu99ers race, please. FOTA are becoming useless as well, as each of them ultimately will lean towards whatever benefits them/their team.

I was amused to hear Michael's comments as well, which seemed to imply he didn't like the race becoming a long race which required car/tyre management, and preferred the old style of sprint to breaking point, replace, sprint again. Well of course you'd want that Michael, it's in that exact style that you won your titles. At 41, dare I suggest he can't hack a heavier car? I may be wrong though, and perhaps he was referring to having to make an engine last 2 or 3 races. In which case I would agree, this rule needs to be revisited, as it's affecting the racing when drivers are being told to 'ease off, we need the engine for the rest of the season'.

All in all though, these guys need to shut up and get on with it; IMHO of course.
 

McZiderRed

Champion Elect
Supporter
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Regarding FOTA changing the rules to force cars to stop twice, doesn't any FOTA vote on changing regs have to be unanimous? If so, then I can't see it happening. A car that's kind to its tyres and doing well in races won't vote to change... Would they?? :dunno:

One question about Webber (sorry if this has been brought up elsewhere already..) Did Webber overshoot his grid slot before the start? If he did, as the commentators intimated, then shouldn't he have incurred a penalty? I know he didn't jump the start, but he should surely have been penalised for missing his grid slot?
 

Boyle

Race Winner
Contributor
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Muddytalker said:
I may be wrong though, and perhaps he was referring to having to make an engine last 2 or 3 races. In which case I would agree, this rule needs to be revisited, as it's affecting the racing when drivers are being told to 'ease off, we need the engine for the rest of the season'.
It certainly doesn't help the racing. If they want these rules to have the desired effect then give each team (at least) an engine for each race weekend so that can push until the end if there is a sniff of an extra place. With Bahrain being especially hard on reliability the racing was hindered even more so.

I think the last two years emphasises the point. Towards the end of both seasons drivers have been given the green light to push as hard as they want because conserving the engines for more races isn't a problem. Obviously, the fact that there's nothing to lose for many drivers or that they need to push to get an extra place in the standings helps. However, giving the teams a lot more engines for a season would undoubtedly help the racing especially in the early-mid stages of a season.
 

genji

Banned
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

McZiderRed said:
Regarding FOTA changing the rules to force cars to stop twice, doesn't any FOTA vote on changing regs have to be unanimous? If so, then I can't see it happening. A car that's kind to its tyres and doing well in races won't vote to change... Would they?? :dunno:
Only three teams voted for the mandatory two stops , so it didn't go through (McLaren were one of the three). There appears to be a groundswell of opinion that today's race was dull and therefore the new regs aren't working. Those three teams could use that to convince the other teams to approve it.

McZiderRed said:
One question about Webber (sorry if this has been brought up elsewhere already..) Did Webber overshoot his grid slot before the start? If he did, as the commentators intimated, then shouldn't he have incurred a penalty? I know he didn't jump the start, but he should surely have been penalised for missing his grid slot?
He was a metre over his mark but didn't jump the start. It's relative movement that incurs the penalty not, it seems, having a metre headstart.

On the engines issue, they have to reduce costs. I'm not averse to drivers nursing their cars during the race (but managing tyres during qualifying seems silly to me) - engines, tyres, brakes - I think that should lead to interesting racing.
 

McZiderRed

Champion Elect
Supporter
Re: 2010 Bahrain GP Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Thanks for the reply genji. Cleared up a couple of things for me. :)
Let's hope 'they' don't use today's race as ammunition to introduce this ridiculous 2 stop rule then!

genji said:
He was a metre over his mark but didn't jump the start. It's relative movement that incurs the penalty not, it seems, having a metre headstart.
As I suspected. Bit of a naff rule, if you ask me! What's the point in having a grid slot then? Nothing against Webber in particular, you understand! :D
Just out of interest, what would have happened if the driver in pole position happens to overshoot his grid slot by oohhh, say, a metre?!
 
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